LS2 & LS3 parts on the LS4
10-16-2007, 12:39 PM
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LS2 & LS3 parts on the LS4 Hey everyone, I have a 2006 monte carlo ss and I am getting started into so mods for my car. They guy i'm going thru is from carolinaautomasters.com/ and from talking to Jeff he is talking about boring out my car to 400+ adding a cam and new headers and heads. A serious new build up for the 5.3. He wanted to use an LS3 block and use my front and reat cover and oil pan, but he doesnt know if that is possible. Do any of yall know if it is at all possible, or any other suggestions.
Also for fun check out this link and look at these fast old style W-Bodies.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gmhp4VxJMms
Thanks,
Travis
Also for fun check out this link and look at these fast old style W-Bodies.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=gmhp4VxJMms
Thanks,
Travis
10-16-2007, 06:52 PM
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I don't think a LS3 would fit in there properly....a LS2 is smaller, and the LS4 is smaller than that. We are a pretty tight in the engine bay as is, so I'm hoping this is a custom one off.
10-16-2007, 09:24 PM
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The sticky at the top of are ls4 page (Information on the LS4, DOD, and the 4T65E-HD) states (The 5.3L LS4 shares the basic architecture of the 6.0L LS2.). I say go for it, but i dont know how much are tranys can handle so good luck.
10-16-2007, 10:06 PM
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I think the tranny is the least of his worries. If he has cash, than a built tranny @ $2k-$7k is really no big deal and the last step of the entire process. I'm doubting that a LS3 (which is bigger than an LS2) is going to fit where a LS4 (smaller than a LS2) makes it home in very tight quarters. I don't know if you've seen under the hood of one of these cars, there is barely enough room for the alternator and belt assemblies on one side and the airbox/CAI and brake booster on the other.
Like I said, if this is going to be a one off production...it sounds awesome. I just can't see cutting up a $30k FWD car and stuffing a big cammed LSx engine in there and hoping everything fits in a car not really cut out for much racing....
10-16-2007, 10:17 PM
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Yes, I know that....I've read and referred to that far more times than you have posts....
I think the tranny is the least of his worries. If he has cash, than a built tranny @ $2k-$7k is really no big deal and the last step of the entire process. I'm doubting that a LS3 (which is bigger than an LS2) is going to fit where a LS4 (smaller than a LS2) makes it home in very tight quarters. I don't know if you've seen under the hood of one of these cars, there is barely enough room for the alternator and belt assemblies on one side and the airbox/CAI and brake booster on the other.
Like I said, if this is going to be a one off production...it sounds awesome. I just can't see cutting up a $30k FWD car and stuffing a big cammed LSx engine in there and hoping everything fits in a car not really cut out for much racing....
I think the tranny is the least of his worries. If he has cash, than a built tranny @ $2k-$7k is really no big deal and the last step of the entire process. I'm doubting that a LS3 (which is bigger than an LS2) is going to fit where a LS4 (smaller than a LS2) makes it home in very tight quarters. I don't know if you've seen under the hood of one of these cars, there is barely enough room for the alternator and belt assemblies on one side and the airbox/CAI and brake booster on the other.
Like I said, if this is going to be a one off production...it sounds awesome. I just can't see cutting up a $30k FWD car and stuffing a big cammed LSx engine in there and hoping everything fits in a car not really cut out for much racing....
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10-16-2007, 10:30 PM
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Yes, I know that....I've read and referred to that far more times than you have posts....
I think the tranny is the least of his worries. If he has cash, than a built tranny @ $2k-$7k is really no big deal and the last step of the entire process. I'm doubting that a LS3 (which is bigger than an LS2) is going to fit where a LS4 (smaller than a LS2) makes it home in very tight quarters. I don't know if you've seen under the hood of one of these cars, there is barely enough room for the alternator and belt assemblies on one side and the airbox/CAI and brake booster on the other.
Like I said, if this is going to be a one off production...it sounds awesome. I just can't see cutting up a $30k FWD car and stuffing a big cammed LSx engine in there and hoping everything fits in a car not really cut out for much racing....
I think the tranny is the least of his worries. If he has cash, than a built tranny @ $2k-$7k is really no big deal and the last step of the entire process. I'm doubting that a LS3 (which is bigger than an LS2) is going to fit where a LS4 (smaller than a LS2) makes it home in very tight quarters. I don't know if you've seen under the hood of one of these cars, there is barely enough room for the alternator and belt assemblies on one side and the airbox/CAI and brake booster on the other.
Like I said, if this is going to be a one off production...it sounds awesome. I just can't see cutting up a $30k FWD car and stuffing a big cammed LSx engine in there and hoping everything fits in a car not really cut out for much racing....
Chip
10-16-2007, 11:38 PM
#9
The (LS4) crankshaft is shorten by 13 mm overall, 3 mm at the flywheel and 10 mm at the accessory drive. This was done to accommodate a more compact accessory drive.
10-17-2007, 07:59 AM
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The difference is the crank snout, internally it's the same! So a 408 LS4 is not out of the question! Think about it? If the 243 LS6 Heads fit on top of the block how much different do you think it is? The snout is shorter to clear frame/susp parts which I'm sure can be worked around. What I don't know for sure is the bellhousing to eng bolt pattern, but I 'm willing to bet it's the same as RWD LSX's! Basically one of the major reason's I brought this car is the potential of it's drivetrain! A very driveable 450HP LS4 is realistic, sure a RWD version would be nice, but not avaliable at the time! For trans I'd start with DynoTech, NY. not cheap but what is? Good Luck should be nice set-up! If I don't trade in my Imp for something RWD, I'll be heading in the same direction more cubes!
10-17-2007, 12:13 PM
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i was asking about the ls2 and 3 blocks because he asked me and i wasnt quite sure.
10-17-2007, 12:22 PM
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I wonder if the 4T80E is too large to fit? It must be because the 300 hp Caddies FWD's all used that tranny. Damn talk about a band aided tranny the 4T65E HD is at the edge of survival in that car.
10-17-2007, 08:51 PM
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Didnt mean to step on your toes there Nacho. Not to familiar with the ls3 i just assumed it has the same out side dimensions as the ls2 with a bigger bore. My apologies.
10-17-2007, 10:21 PM
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Well the only reason my 4T80E lasted in my modified DTS was I had the Granatelli shift controller....and a 300 hp DTS only puts about 216 or so to the wheels. So maybe the 28-30% drivetrain loss is the reason they did not use the 4T80E.
10-23-2007, 08:37 PM
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Well i guess i should chime in here. first off OHHH RAAA DEVIL DOG ! . Hmm ok got that out of my system 
. The LS4 has a differant belhousing bolt pattern than the other LS motors. It has the transverse type pattern where as the other LS motors have a common longitudinal pattern. The LS4 could be re-sleeved up to whatever bore you wanted since the block is essencially the same in the other aspects except for the bellhousing pattern. I'm boring mine up to 3.898 (doesn't require expensive re-sleeving),which is the stock bore for a LS1/LS6. I'm eliminating the DoD to give me a larger cam selection and make tuning easier. Also i think the LS4 is missing starter mount provisions on the block due to the starter being mounted on the transmission bellhousing of the 4t65e. The crank has some length machined off of it to make the LS4 shorter to fit sideways. Someone mentioned the 4t80e transmission,that thing is larger than the 4t65e and i don't think it would fit in a monteSS . I can get some measurements off of the transmissions tomorrow for those curious on overall lengths. here is a pic of the rear of the LS4 block notice the bellhousing bolt pattern. The second pic is the back of an LS2 block.
. The LS4 has a differant belhousing bolt pattern than the other LS motors. It has the transverse type pattern where as the other LS motors have a common longitudinal pattern. The LS4 could be re-sleeved up to whatever bore you wanted since the block is essencially the same in the other aspects except for the bellhousing pattern. I'm boring mine up to 3.898 (doesn't require expensive re-sleeving),which is the stock bore for a LS1/LS6. I'm eliminating the DoD to give me a larger cam selection and make tuning easier. Also i think the LS4 is missing starter mount provisions on the block due to the starter being mounted on the transmission bellhousing of the 4t65e. The crank has some length machined off of it to make the LS4 shorter to fit sideways. Someone mentioned the 4t80e transmission,that thing is larger than the 4t65e and i don't think it would fit in a monteSS . I can get some measurements off of the transmissions tomorrow for those curious on overall lengths. here is a pic of the rear of the LS4 block notice the bellhousing bolt pattern. The second pic is the back of an LS2 block.