Found my problem...
12-02-2009, 10:10 AM
#41
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To guys who have had problems with their springs, I'd like to know the specific procedure used to set them up. What instructions are being given you on how to do it and who made the recommendation.
Maybe there's a clue in that.
Care to share?
Jake
West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!
Maybe there's a clue in that.
Care to share?
Jake
West Point ROCKS! Nation's TOP COLLEGE per Forbes Magazine!! Graduation Day Parade 20 May 2010!!!
12-02-2009, 10:23 AM
#42
Again I ran the 918's, three busted in 20 miles.
I ran PAC 1218's. They floated but never broke for nearly a year.
I did not run 1518's but if I recall, its the same spring but its nitrited (spell check) so I will assume they would perform the same but obviously hold pressure longer. Two sets of 1218's were installed at 1.750" IIRC exactly as Lloyd and Brett suggested. Still floated.
Installed PSI (Nascar quality springs IIRC) LS1 beehives which were a bit stronger than the PAC's. They floated too.
Installed Manley (forgot the p/n) beehives and the float was gone but 5 were busted in two weeks. Manley claimed to have a bad batch similar to Comp.
Installed the Patriot Extremes, zero float and have been running strong for nearly two years.
Personally have seen loads of posts on many boards about busted beehives regardless of brand. I dont recall a single post on busted Patriots. Not saying there are not any, but I have not seen any. Maybe someone can produce them?
They may be Chinese junk, but the gov'ment is taking all my damn money.
I ran PAC 1218's. They floated but never broke for nearly a year.
I did not run 1518's but if I recall, its the same spring but its nitrited (spell check) so I will assume they would perform the same but obviously hold pressure longer. Two sets of 1218's were installed at 1.750" IIRC exactly as Lloyd and Brett suggested. Still floated.
Installed PSI (Nascar quality springs IIRC) LS1 beehives which were a bit stronger than the PAC's. They floated too.
Installed Manley (forgot the p/n) beehives and the float was gone but 5 were busted in two weeks. Manley claimed to have a bad batch similar to Comp.
Installed the Patriot Extremes, zero float and have been running strong for nearly two years.
Personally have seen loads of posts on many boards about busted beehives regardless of brand. I dont recall a single post on busted Patriots. Not saying there are not any, but I have not seen any. Maybe someone can produce them?
They may be Chinese junk, but the gov'ment is taking all my damn money.
I'm with you and Speed inc on the Patriots. We have literally thousands of sets out there and we do not run into issues with them. I would run them without hesitation. We offer both the Patriot and the PAC and very competitive prices BTW
We also really like the Manley dual springs, I'm about to start up my engine with a VERY aggressive cam on a set of their singles to see how well they perform as well.That said, if you went through 5 different sets and 4 different brands of single springs and had problems, at some point it must be noted that you were probably not running springs that were the right specs or possibly were not set up properly for your application
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Last edited by Scoggin Dickey; 12-02-2009 at 10:32 AM.
12-02-2009, 03:27 PM
#43
That said, if you went through 5 different sets and 4 different brands of single springs and had problems, at some point it must be noted that you were probably not running springs that were the right specs or possibly were not set up properly for your application
At that time I had a more agressive cam making around .610" lift on XE lobes. I think that might have contributed to the float and the breakage. But the fact still stands, Comp and Manley both admitted to having defective stock at around the same time. I am confident there was no issue with the install height.
I have since replaced the cam with one in the .570" lift range and have not busted any springs since. But to be fair, the only springs I have since were the Patriot extremes.
12-02-2009, 04:23 PM
#44
It is very hard for me to argue with this logic.
At that time I had a more agressive cam making around .610" lift on XE lobes. I think that might have contributed to the float and the breakage. But the fact still stands, Comp and Manley both admitted to having defective stock at around the same time. I am confident there was no issue with the install height.
I have since replaced the cam with one in the .570" lift range and have not busted any springs since. But to be fair, the only springs I have since were the Patriot extremes.
At that time I had a more agressive cam making around .610" lift on XE lobes. I think that might have contributed to the float and the breakage. But the fact still stands, Comp and Manley both admitted to having defective stock at around the same time. I am confident there was no issue with the install height.
I have since replaced the cam with one in the .570" lift range and have not busted any springs since. But to be fair, the only springs I have since were the Patriot extremes.
I'm not lecturing BTW, I'm just trying to provide some insight from what I would look over when evaluating and/or laying out specs for any build I would put together or check out for a customer.
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12-02-2009, 05:44 PM
#46
This truely is turning into a good post about a broken spring lol. alot of insight has been put out here and im sure others will appreciate it the way i do. after a long wait my springs came in. i was very excited to see the nice white box that housed the products needed to bring my car back to life. unfortunately for me the spring compressor i have doesnt quite fit around both springs to hold them both while trying to compress it 
so now im going to try to modify the arms or find another spring compressor. today i atleast got the old spring out (which came out by me flicking the locks out with my finger) and installed the new valve seal.
carnage
new stuff
i really dont wanna take my heads off but if i have to i will. and perhaps send them out for alittle diet
so now im going to try to modify the arms or find another spring compressor. today i atleast got the old spring out (which came out by me flicking the locks out with my finger) and installed the new valve seal. carnage
new stuff
i really dont wanna take my heads off but if i have to i will. and perhaps send them out for alittle diet
12-02-2009, 07:58 PM
#50
I have the Crane valve spring that slips over the rocker studs, then you tighten down a single nut in the middle and both springs compress easily and with no effort at all. This is the best valve spring compressor I have used when changing springs with heads on the motor. The screw type does not easily work with dual springs.
Try to find the Crane compressor. I can change my springs out alone in 2 hours with it. Its worth gold.
Try to find the Crane compressor. I can change my springs out alone in 2 hours with it. Its worth gold.
12-02-2009, 11:54 PM
#53
i work at a machine shop so ill be attempting to make my own tool to compress the springs. i had made one along time ago but it wasnt nearly as thick of a material as i needed it to be. if not then i might just pay up the money and get the speed incs version of the crane tool. or i might just try to make one of those too :p
does anyone know how to get all the cylinders at TDC other then the "air through the spark plug" method ? somoene had said how to do it but it was for an ls1 which i know is alittle different
Put #1 at TDC, do cyl 1 and 6. Rotate 90*, do 8 and 5, rotate 90*, 7 and 4, rotate one more 90*, do 2 and 3. Done.
thats wha they said for the ls1. does anyone know it for the lt1 ? thanks
does anyone know how to get all the cylinders at TDC other then the "air through the spark plug" method ? somoene had said how to do it but it was for an ls1 which i know is alittle different
Put #1 at TDC, do cyl 1 and 6. Rotate 90*, do 8 and 5, rotate 90*, 7 and 4, rotate one more 90*, do 2 and 3. Done.
thats wha they said for the ls1. does anyone know it for the lt1 ? thanks
12-03-2009, 08:45 AM
#54
http://shbox.com/ci/valve_spring_swap.html
As long as the piston is anywhere near TDC, your fine. The only way to really completely drop a valve is if the piston is at BDC and I am not even then convinced that it would fall loosely into the cylinder.
If the top of the valve drops into the guide, after you have recovered from the heart attack it causes, just pull it out with a magnetic retriever.
No need to pump the cylinders up with air unless you just have supper easy access to the plugs which of course will never happen in LT1 world.
As long as the piston is anywhere near TDC, your fine. The only way to really completely drop a valve is if the piston is at BDC and I am not even then convinced that it would fall loosely into the cylinder.
If the top of the valve drops into the guide, after you have recovered from the heart attack it causes, just pull it out with a magnetic retriever.
No need to pump the cylinders up with air unless you just have supper easy access to the plugs which of course will never happen in LT1 world.
12-03-2009, 08:57 AM
#55
We sell the Crane tool that is now made by another manufacturer since Crane shut down. It is widely considered to be the best. It's 121.95 and we have trouble keeping it in stock because it is so popular. I have one left right now
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12-03-2009, 11:23 AM
#57
I just found out the LT1 version is now dead, we will only be carrying the LS1 version from here on out.
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12-03-2009, 11:49 AM
#59
thanks wrd1972 that comes in handy. i have mac mids and its not to bad to get the hose in there. i just wont have a compressor around when i do my springs. and thank you scoggin. that sucks that you dont have it anymore but thats the way the world is. i found that byunspeed has a crane look a like for around $100 but i dont have the time for that. im going to make one after work today and see how it works out. wish me luck
12-03-2009, 12:54 PM
#60
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I used the Tims's valve spring tool. It worked GREAT!! and was cheap As far has pressurizing the cylindres I bought the adapter and hose. I tried to hook up no. 2 cylinder and it was a pain. I removed the rocker and pushrod and the compressed the spring the valve slid to the top of the valve guide. I then used my 1/2 rachet and rotated the engine till the valve cam back up on that cylinder. I had no problems except for making sure I measured the installed height a couple of times before I put the spring back on Don't forget the valve seal when puting the spring on that is a PAIN