GM race shop block
09-28-2012, 12:50 PM
#242
A BIG issue here is those who claim they would buy the Dart want it to be the same price as the SHP gen 1 block. From a business standpoint though the LT market is a tiny fraction the size and the R&D/tooling/marketing cost would have to be paid by a tiny fraction the number of sales.
Granted getting ahold of the GM protoype molds would reduce much of those costs but not eliminate. So it would still be wildly unrealistic to expect the price to be near the SHP block.
As I have said before though even though a lot of folks are saying they would buy one I really doubt they would once they started looking at the complete cost of an engine. Look how often guys choose heads on price, or how often guys build cast crank strokers and how many can't even make the distributor work because they are just incompetent.
If the market really was there someone would have taken Jeff Green up on his offer to do more Donovan conversions like his or figured it out themselves. Yes this cost a lot more than $2000 but if the market was there for 400 $2000 big inch LT1s there would be a handful of those guys willing to pay more for an aluminum block version.
Granted getting ahold of the GM protoype molds would reduce much of those costs but not eliminate. So it would still be wildly unrealistic to expect the price to be near the SHP block.
As I have said before though even though a lot of folks are saying they would buy one I really doubt they would once they started looking at the complete cost of an engine. Look how often guys choose heads on price, or how often guys build cast crank strokers and how many can't even make the distributor work because they are just incompetent.
If the market really was there someone would have taken Jeff Green up on his offer to do more Donovan conversions like his or figured it out themselves. Yes this cost a lot more than $2000 but if the market was there for 400 $2000 big inch LT1s there would be a handful of those guys willing to pay more for an aluminum block version.
I think we would be far better off with a good set of heads then a big bore block. Do we have a set of heads/intake setup the would even be capable of supporting a big cube block?
09-28-2012, 01:06 PM
#243
Heads and intake would be easily converted from readily available gen 1 aftermarket stuff. Basically all the aftermarket stuff we have is adapted from companies gen 1 offerings anyway because as was said a few posts ago the LT1 is really a minor twist on the old gen 1 design anyway.
The f-body I think can easily be replaced with a modern design or even just a LS 4th gen.
The b-body is a lot harder to come up with a "modern equivalent". Are there any cars that seat 5-6 adults V8 rwd and had tow ratings up to 5000lbs? The Fleetwood being longer was available with a 7000lbs tow rating, and the wagons had seatbelts for 8.
The f-body I think can easily be replaced with a modern design or even just a LS 4th gen.
The b-body is a lot harder to come up with a "modern equivalent". Are there any cars that seat 5-6 adults V8 rwd and had tow ratings up to 5000lbs? The Fleetwood being longer was available with a 7000lbs tow rating, and the wagons had seatbelts for 8.
Last edited by 96capricemgr; 09-28-2012 at 01:15 PM.
09-28-2012, 02:37 PM
#244
On The Tree
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The LT1's just got way more competitive in Stock Eliminator with the recent HP hit on the LS1's. I realize it isn't that large a market, but virtually every one of us would much rather have a LTx Bowtie or Dart block over the factory LT1 block. And that goes for Super Stock, also. The aluminum head and iron head LT1's are some of the best combos.
It is a pretty big hassle to weld up the heads on LT1's for a conventional Bowtie block. Plus, you have to re-plumb the cooling system. It is worth it, but not easy by any stretch. Especially on the iron head.
It is a pretty big hassle to weld up the heads on LT1's for a conventional Bowtie block. Plus, you have to re-plumb the cooling system. It is worth it, but not easy by any stretch. Especially on the iron head.
09-28-2012, 09:42 PM
#246
I still see the B-body Impala SS cars getting love in magazines to this day. In the Chevrolet 100 Anniv edition of Motor Trend they had a full page spread. Some other magazine had one for a cool used car buy under 10K. Far as after market blocks, if you really want one you could get one made, just I hope you have deep pockets because a drug addiction would make more sense.
09-28-2012, 09:55 PM
#247
With the handful of GM race blocks made and the TWO donovan aluminum Jeff converted all we actually see in use ids the one Jeff kept. The second one he converted he held onto for a handful of years till he was sure he wasn't going to frag the first and wreck it then he sold one of them off and I haven't heard a word about it since and it has been years.
Like I said if the market was there someone else would have converted an aluminum block like he did or asked him to do it again.
Like I said if the market was there someone else would have converted an aluminum block like he did or asked him to do it again.
09-29-2012, 02:08 AM
#248
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (6)
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: DSM
Posts: 1,433
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Personally, I don't see the point in buying a car to tow (I own a truck), although I do imagine it'd be nice for people like yourself to have a car they can make quick and still tow a bit. Just don't think the market is there right now for cars that can tow
09-29-2012, 07:20 AM
#249
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (26)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Milledgeville, GA
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don't think most people realize that one reason you see so many mini vans running around is the fact that there are no full size wagons any more.
Same goes for trucks.....I get that most everyone should own or have access to a truck, but I believe tons of people who buy them did so because they didn't have much choice. Also the same reason that GM lost alot of people who went to Ford when GM didn't have a full size RWD...and even more to Ford when GM didn't have a "pony" car.
I believe if GM would offer us the "ute" that is sold down under it would be a great seller. It's basically an El Camino built from the G8.
09-29-2012, 08:06 AM
#250
My friend had a nasty Ford Lightning that ran low 11's. It had the power to tow anything, but he'd have to swap the converter, because if he ran the good track converter for towing it would eat his transmission. If he put the stock converter in it so he could tow, then his truck would run 12's.
09-29-2012, 08:24 AM
#251
TECH Fanatic
iTrader: (26)
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Milledgeville, GA
Posts: 1,909
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
x2
My friend had a nasty Ford Lightning that ran low 11's. It had the power to tow anything, but he'd have to swap the converter, because if he ran the good track converter for towing it would eat his transmission. If he put the stock converter in it so he could tow, then his truck would run 12's.
My friend had a nasty Ford Lightning that ran low 11's. It had the power to tow anything, but he'd have to swap the converter, because if he ran the good track converter for towing it would eat his transmission. If he put the stock converter in it so he could tow, then his truck would run 12's.
09-29-2012, 09:44 AM
#253
If I had a LT1 car today and for some reason I wanted to hot rod it, I would look for a bigger/better block that did away with the Optispark distributor and LT1 heads. IOW, I'd be using a SBC.
Would you really want to spend stupid money on some crazy LT1 raceshop or custom Donovan block and be stuck with the bastard ignition system and limited number of aftermarket high performance heads?
Would you really want to spend stupid money on some crazy LT1 raceshop or custom Donovan block and be stuck with the bastard ignition system and limited number of aftermarket high performance heads?
09-29-2012, 10:53 AM
#254
I can see a reason for a car that could tow. If you could only have one car which isnt uncommon you need a do it all car. When I live in my apartment I could only have one car. I had a jetski and needed to be able to tow it but I also did a ton of traveling so I got a cobalt with and auto to tow my jetski. I also did a lot of traveling so a truck wasn't practical from a fuel economy standpoint.
I know we can convert heads/intake. But then you are talking about converting a block to. wouldn't it be easier to just use a tall block SBC from the begining and just use a modern ignition system like the 24x system? Yah i know its not an ltx then but who really cares its not really an ltx after you basterilize it by converting other stuff to work anyway.
I know we can convert heads/intake. But then you are talking about converting a block to. wouldn't it be easier to just use a tall block SBC from the begining and just use a modern ignition system like the 24x system? Yah i know its not an ltx then but who really cares its not really an ltx after you basterilize it by converting other stuff to work anyway.
09-29-2012, 12:03 PM
#255
On The Tree
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 162
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There are only two or three aftermarket blocks approved for NHRA Stock Eliminator and Super Stock.
09-29-2012, 12:15 PM
#256
Village Troll 
iTrader: (2)
Yes, all of the above plus we still have to use the Optispark. That isn't that big of a problem since we can also use a crank trigger. That pretty much eliminated our Optispark woes.
There are only two or three aftermarket blocks approved for NHRA Stock Eliminator and Super Stock.
There are only two or three aftermarket blocks approved for NHRA Stock Eliminator and Super Stock.
09-29-2012, 12:25 PM
#257
You'd need to convert to another type of system. At that point, it's just an LT1 block & heads-which will hamper your performance in cubic inch limit, block strength and performance head offerings.
Make the move to SBC. Or better yet, LSx.