GM race shop block
09-29-2012, 01:13 PM
#261
I don't think a magnetic crank trigger (or any other trigger system) would work with the PCM setup for the LT1. Caprice?
You'd need to convert to another type of system. At that point, it's just an LT1 block & heads-which will hamper your performance in cubic inch limit, block strength and performance head offerings.
Make the move to SBC. Or better yet, LSx.
You'd need to convert to another type of system. At that point, it's just an LT1 block & heads-which will hamper your performance in cubic inch limit, block strength and performance head offerings.
Make the move to SBC. Or better yet, LSx.
Why not just close the LT1 section and abandon us LT1 guys all together. Such negativity. Everyone already knows what you said, some of us like this platform.
09-29-2012, 01:42 PM
#262
I don't think a magnetic crank trigger (or any other trigger system) would work with the PCM setup for the LT1. Caprice?
You'd need to convert to another type of system. At that point, it's just an LT1 block & heads-which will hamper your performance in cubic inch limit, block strength and performance head offerings.
Make the move to SBC. Or better yet, LSx.
You'd need to convert to another type of system. At that point, it's just an LT1 block & heads-which will hamper your performance in cubic inch limit, block strength and performance head offerings.
Make the move to SBC. Or better yet, LSx.
I agree with the cubic inch thing, but since when was block strength a limiting factor on lt1s? For heads, we have a whole world of SBC race heads at our disposal for a small conversion fee. Just have to be careful with some of them because of our small bore size.
09-29-2012, 03:11 PM
#263
IMO the biggest reason everyone wants different stuff for the LT1 is because it is different from it's predecessor but still close to the same. Everyone hates the WP, Opti, WP driving timing chain, intake manifold.
They are all good pieces though.
The WP lasted me longer than any belt driven WP I had on cars before this, the opti often goes 100K without so much as a cap and rotor and I don't know anyone who would try that on an HEI, the timing chain while much hated handles the substantial extra load of the WP and is still a rock solid piece, the intake doesn't work well in theory but here in the real world it works pretty darn good.
We have seen a few examples of 1000+rwhp LT1s on stock blocks yet the vast majority of built cars even with nitrous or boost are under 600rwhp and few NA examples top 450rwhp.
When I go to the track the guys with the old musclecars thing it is really cool what we can do with the LT1/pcm/OD tranny. They can't run the compression we do on pump gas, they have to buy aftermarket heads to equal what we have as cast, I doubt there is an OEM gen 1 intake can support 400+rwhp NA unported.
People just want what the other guy has, even if what you already have is better. As has been discussed at least in other threads, the factory LS heads give it an advantage BUT everyone ignores that there are plenty of altered valve angle SBC heads we could adapt. The altered valve angle that is a critical part of the LS head flow potential is not new to them it was readily available in aftermarket gen 1 heads long before the LS was built.
They are all good pieces though.
The WP lasted me longer than any belt driven WP I had on cars before this, the opti often goes 100K without so much as a cap and rotor and I don't know anyone who would try that on an HEI, the timing chain while much hated handles the substantial extra load of the WP and is still a rock solid piece, the intake doesn't work well in theory but here in the real world it works pretty darn good.
We have seen a few examples of 1000+rwhp LT1s on stock blocks yet the vast majority of built cars even with nitrous or boost are under 600rwhp and few NA examples top 450rwhp.
When I go to the track the guys with the old musclecars thing it is really cool what we can do with the LT1/pcm/OD tranny. They can't run the compression we do on pump gas, they have to buy aftermarket heads to equal what we have as cast, I doubt there is an OEM gen 1 intake can support 400+rwhp NA unported.
People just want what the other guy has, even if what you already have is better. As has been discussed at least in other threads, the factory LS heads give it an advantage BUT everyone ignores that there are plenty of altered valve angle SBC heads we could adapt. The altered valve angle that is a critical part of the LS head flow potential is not new to them it was readily available in aftermarket gen 1 heads long before the LS was built.
09-29-2012, 03:17 PM
#264
People just want what the other guy has, even if what you already have is better. As has been discussed at least in other threads, the factory LS heads give it an advantage BUT everyone ignores that there are plenty of altered valve angle SBC heads we could adapt. The altered valve angle that is a critical part of the LS head flow potential is not new to them it was readily available in aftermarket gen 1 heads long before the LS was built.
09-30-2012, 07:39 AM
#265
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Exactly.....
By the way....I am starting to see alot of LSx engine problems/failures in our shop due to oiling issues. Several truck engines and a few 10+ camaros with mysterious camshaft & lifter failures...lots of valvespring/pushrod/rocker failures......a 98 vette with only 52,000 miles and the oil pressure starting at 40 cold, but dropping to 10 hot at cruise and below at idle. We haven't torn into that one yet. This is a dealership shop - not a performance shop - and they don't appear to be abused/neglected vehicles.
By the way....I am starting to see alot of LSx engine problems/failures in our shop due to oiling issues. Several truck engines and a few 10+ camaros with mysterious camshaft & lifter failures...lots of valvespring/pushrod/rocker failures......a 98 vette with only 52,000 miles and the oil pressure starting at 40 cold, but dropping to 10 hot at cruise and below at idle. We haven't torn into that one yet. This is a dealership shop - not a performance shop - and they don't appear to be abused/neglected vehicles.
09-30-2012, 08:04 AM
#266
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It means those who try to use SE LTx performance figures as competitive information over other power plants should take everything into consideration.
So the LSx must have been a bad idea from the get go...
So the LSx must have been a bad idea from the get go...
09-30-2012, 08:16 AM
#267
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Not saying that at all.....I'm not trying to start an LT vs LS war. I would defend both as being awesome powerplants. I was merely stating what I have been seeing lately and wondering what is going on with the oiling situation.
I now realize my quoting longbob's post about why go to an LS1 and go slower looks like I was attacking the LS1, but what I was meaning is that he is saying why go slower (under the current rules) in an LS1 than he can with his LT1? It's all about "factored HP" in a class like that from what I understand.
I'm not so dumb as to think the LSx platform isn't the way to go for all out power in the LT vs LS debate. For MY needs/goals/budget the LT1 is just fine and actually better. I can buy them cheap, build them cheap, have fun street cars....cheap. Cars that are respectably quick compared to any other daily driver street car no matter the powerplant.
I now realize my quoting longbob's post about why go to an LS1 and go slower looks like I was attacking the LS1, but what I was meaning is that he is saying why go slower (under the current rules) in an LS1 than he can with his LT1? It's all about "factored HP" in a class like that from what I understand.
I'm not so dumb as to think the LSx platform isn't the way to go for all out power in the LT vs LS debate. For MY needs/goals/budget the LT1 is just fine and actually better. I can buy them cheap, build them cheap, have fun street cars....cheap. Cars that are respectably quick compared to any other daily driver street car no matter the powerplant.
10-16-2012, 02:12 PM
#269
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Honestly I feel like alot of the help the LSx cars got was in the form of their new computer management system. The water pump and the opti scares everybody into the newer cars. I got a mezerie HD unit, and a 24x system on the way. Just waiting on my raceblock.
I agree with the gentleman's findings above as well that was pointing out some oiling related issues with the LS1. The LS1s in stock form are not without their weaknesses. When they first came out, I remember alot of them had knocking noises from the factory that was attributed to piston slap.
I agree with the gentleman's findings above as well that was pointing out some oiling related issues with the LS1. The LS1s in stock form are not without their weaknesses. When they first came out, I remember alot of them had knocking noises from the factory that was attributed to piston slap.
10-16-2012, 03:13 PM
#271
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I was being facetious. The joke would have been "I am here and happy to give my down payment to wait in line for the mass produced race block to get the ball rolling." I really will do it, I just doubt its going to happen.
10-17-2012, 07:25 AM
#273
+1
very true ive seen many issues myself......the more i work on them the more i think they were designed as throw away motors from gm.......oddly more and more resembling ford junk........hell even the firing order now.......ONLY thing those motors have over the sbc platform is the cylinder head as 96caprice said
me too
same here I'd LOVE to get my hands on one as well........id dish out some $$ for it for sure.......a big bore short stroke NA LT1.....ummmm...YES!!!!!!!!! 
Exactly.....
By the way....I am starting to see alot of LSx engine problems/failures in our shop due to oiling issues. Several truck engines and a few 10+ camaros with mysterious camshaft & lifter failures...lots of valvespring/pushrod/rocker failures......a 98 vette with only 52,000 miles and the oil pressure starting at 40 cold, but dropping to 10 hot at cruise and below at idle. We haven't torn into that one yet. This is a dealership shop - not a performance shop - and they don't appear to be abused/neglected vehicles.
By the way....I am starting to see alot of LSx engine problems/failures in our shop due to oiling issues. Several truck engines and a few 10+ camaros with mysterious camshaft & lifter failures...lots of valvespring/pushrod/rocker failures......a 98 vette with only 52,000 miles and the oil pressure starting at 40 cold, but dropping to 10 hot at cruise and below at idle. We haven't torn into that one yet. This is a dealership shop - not a performance shop - and they don't appear to be abused/neglected vehicles.
10-17-2012, 02:31 PM
#276
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If I could get one, I wouldnt even go displacement crazy with it. I might even destroke it for rod and piston strength (stronger piston tops). Maybe either a flat 400, or maybe a 377 with an all forged rotating assembly, the top end I already have, and run 15-20 lbs of intercooled boost through it. That motor would last forever (assuming you kept up on top of your fuel delivery, and you dont have a lean moment). I wouldnt even spin it past 7k. thats got to be good for an easy 600 rwhp like..........forever.
10-17-2012, 03:34 PM
#277
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I haven't thought about this for a while! I was and still am willing to purchase one if ever made, as I still love my LT platform. It makes me a little sad and angry they wouldn't let the aftermarket produce them, but then again what can you say about a company that let Pontiac die and made that monstrosity called the Aztek AKA ASSTEK... Anyway thanks for bringing this back from the dead - it gave me something to dream about as I see another new motor in my near future. LTX FTW!
10-18-2012, 06:07 AM
#280
