Firebird Phoenix

iTrader: (6)

A friend is letting me paint my car at his house (home made booth/helped him paint a car there before). Anyways its a go so I need to go buy the supplies, he has the air compressor but his gun isn't that gun so basically I need everything. I need a list of everything, I figured I could do the prep work at my own house (sanding/etc).

So if anyone could tell me a list of paint guns/sand paper/all supplies I need and where to generally buy it (I'm in the St. Louis area) that'd be great to get me started. Then if you could elaborate the steps of prepping of sanding to the final step that'd be perfect too. I have fair knowledge of body work but at the same time I don't want to mess anything up and need detailed steps as this is my first paint job. Thanks btw its for a 98-02 trans am, and its black now but want to change colors.

Firebird Phoenix

iTrader: (6)

Anyyy...one?

technical

Wow, that's a tall order. I'd caution you to not learn how to paint a car from the internet considering the cost is high enough and 're-dos' are even more costly.

That being said... assuming you want a nice finish...let's start with supplies. I'm probably missing stuff since this is off the top of my head.

Prep:
* non-directional (orbital) sander with 200+ pads. They sell these in a roll which is economical. self adhesive. 5" is a pretty good size.
* primer, self etching is possible, and/or sandable primer.
* body filler + spreaders
* you'll also want to get some good blocking tools and some cheap spray cans for guide coats.
* very important - masks. you don't want to breathe any of this ****.
* if you need to straighten any panels a reasonably nice set of hammers and dollies to get you as close as you can before slinging the mud.

paint:
* a siphoning (bottom fed) airbrush isn't bad, but unless you've used a gravity fed sprayer before you might want to practice. The gravity fed units like to move a good amount of paint and they tend to be more maneuverable in tight spaces or out of position. It also wouldn't be a bad thing to have two guns one for the base and one for the clear.
* paint... duh.
* reducer
* hardener for the clear.
* tack rags

finish:
* 800, 1000, 1500 and 2000 grit sandpaper. you'll need this for rubbing down the orange peel. for the life of me I can never remember the type of paper, but it's black. i.e. not aluminum oxide.
* buffer (real buffer not a polisher)
* finish compound
* an actual polisher (orbital)
* polishing compound

Plan on spending a lot of time prepping the car. Black can be a **** so you'll be spending a lot of time making sure you have no edges.

If your friend doesn't already have a drier or water separator on his compressor get one. Water in the line makes for funny designs in the paint. Also make sure he has a regulator that can drop your working pressure down to like 20-40psi. That'll depend on the type of gun you get.

I don't know where you can get this stuff in your area, but there is a paint and body shop near me that sells all the supplies. I have in the past bought filler and some other supplies at places like Pep Boys, but the good stuff is usually located at the specialty stores. They typically do not handle "off the street" business so you might need to start an account with one.

Cts-Voodoo

Thats a great post. I would have asked what condition the car was in (dings, dents or no body work required) and what you were planning to do, all that ish. Frankly, the local barns and noble might be a good stop for you considering youre going to be learning a lot on this subject.

I think jesse james has a series of books out now, how to _____blank______ like a pro. He should have a car painting one, and Im sure it will discuss the basics. If not, there will be a million more books like that you can choose from. Just make sure theyre current books -not written in 1970 or something.

The only thing I want to stress to you about paint is the better prepped (masking, sanding, double checking smoothness of bodywork) the better the paint job will turn out.

Firebird Phoenix

iTrader: (6)

Thanks for both of the responses guys. I guess I could get most of this at a Harbor Freight?

As far as the orbital sander, recommend a brand or just get anyone I see? As far as the initial sanding with the pads what grit??? And do I sand it down till what? Also do I need to do some kinda treatment on the metal or is it fine as long as I paint it immediately (so it don't rust)???

Yeah I planned on getting two guns, one for the paint and one for the clear. I heard maybe a third(cheap one) for primer or no? What size tip should I get and HVLP gun right up to my discretion on the type of siphon or gravity right?

Sorry for the questions (and more to come i'm sure lol).

I'll probably buy the orbital sander in the next couple days so I can start at least sanding the car at my house instead of driving out to my friends to start.

technical

You can find a cheapy kit from Harbour Freight that has a couple body hammers two or three dollies and a slapper if you need them. For the price it ain't bad and since you're just starting out there's no reason to drop big coin...yet. They probably have a decent sander too. I have a 60 gallon compressor so an air sander works for me, but an electric one should be fine if you don't have access to a larger compressor.

Depending on the condition of the paint you'll most likely be sanding to at least the primer. Since a good percentage of the car is plastic you might want to strip it almost bare. If you don't get good adhesion with the primer the whole job will be crap. As you start to break it down take notice of the condition of the material. In most cases you'll be able to tell based on looks when to stop. Just don't sand through anything. ;-)

Once you get started sanding post some pictures. And like Voodoo stated... it's all in the prep. Are you working on an assembled car or do you have some parts off?

Firebird Phoenix

iTrader: (6)

Thanks for the help Technical. The car is assembled (body parts just hanging there on front). Few questions...

Both fenders and front bumper is brand new from GM (in black primer I think...?) do I need to sand them down or just barely do it to get any imperfections I see? Also the hood is from U.S. Exotics, WS9 hood. Its gelcoated if I recall....what about sanding for that?

So this electric one from harbor freight is cool?
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=93431

Cts-Voodoo

I would suggest one gun for primer and one gun for sealer/paint/clear. I always use high fill primer and the stuff globs up like crazy, so I use something crazy like a 2.3mm nozzle. As for sealer, paint and clear they all need to be layed down in the same way and usually reduce out nicely with the same stuff.

Harbor Freight is money as hell, I love their ish. I never feel bad if anything breaks! As for the HVLP guns they have pretty decent stuff, direct knock offs of high end guns. I would assume about a 1.3mm to a 1.8mm for paint and clear and a 2mm for a primer gun.

technical

The factory primed parts still need to be 'brought down' so that you have something to adhere. You don't need to strip them. Just dull them evenly.
You'll want to *lightly* dull the hood too, but be careful not to strip the gel coat. I'm not well versed in painting fiber, but I believe they ship those parts with at least a couple layers of gel. If you break through that you'll need to re-gel the area so ... don't do that. :-)

That sander is OK. The only problem is the shape of the handle. It might be hard to manage. I have two Craftsmen that are similar, but I use them for woodworking.

I'd take Voodoo's recommendations for nozzles and guns though the 2.3mm nozzle is bit large. Voodoo, you must have robot arms...or spend a lot of time sanding primer ;-). I think the paint manufacturer actually recommends the nozzle size. Short version don't get more than two guns...overkill. Concentrate on the prep for now. You'll have plenty of time to develop a strategy for painting.

I was trying to remember the name of the catalog company that has all the goodies. http://www.eastwoodco.com/ They're more money than HF, but it's good stuff.

Cts-Voodoo

Heh, the 2.3mm nozzle for high fill primer is a must. Lay down 6-7 wet coats and you can totally eliminate body waves. Yes, I know this is what glaze is for, but man its SOOOO much faster lol.

I dont have robot arms, I have a DA and 400/600 to smooth it out.

technical

I never used glaze before. Is it a pain?

Firebird Phoenix

iTrader: (6)

You two are awesome that is all i'm gonna say lol. I'll concentrate on prep for now. I'm going to Harbor Freight Thursday night to get that sander, what size(grit) pads do I need to pick up for now to sand? Also for the small areas what size(grit) sand paper should I get for those hard to reach areas the orbital sander can't get.

Yeah I was checking out Eastwood's site for their paint guns. So two guns are fine, so get one that is for paint/primer (a 1.8mm tip for paint and a 2.0mm tip for primerright?) and one gun for clear (1.3mm tip)??

Like I said i'll concentrate on the prep/sanding for now.

Cts-Voodoo

Its like a milky smooth version of bondo/rage/filler. Its used to fill in the air pits in bondo and fill door dings and stuff and whatever. (key scratches, etc.) Its good for little fixes and a quick buzz over with a DA or 400 and then for paint, but man, I hate body work, so if I can half *** it with high fill, you better bet Im going to.

I would honestly suggest a 1.4mm tip for paint, I like the way they break up pearls and metallics better. 1.8mm to a 2mm tip for primer. You should be able to find them both for like 20 bucks each at harbor freight. Make sure your compressor has a water seperator (dryer unit) plumbed into the system or youll be seeing weird patterns in the paint. I have a habor freight dryer on my system. Ill post a pic of my setup here in a sec.

Cts-Voodoo

My garage (not a legit booth)

Compressor is a 30gal with a harbor frieght water dryer (160psi max) notice the cool high flow breather.


The lines are plumbed into two drop down reels on either side of the garage so as not to drag hoses against paint jobs, Im **** I know.


All of my air tools are harbor freight specials. Ive used snap ons, and Im always afraid of breaking them. I have yet to destroy one of these and most were cheaper than 20 bucks.

Firebird Phoenix

iTrader: (6)

Nice setup, to bad your half away across the country lol

Cts-Voodoo

Rattle can gun cleaner rocks. Dont hate. Use reducer on the inside gun parts after, otherwise you may have an adverse reaction in the paint.


Side by side: a harbor freight special airbrush compressor for 70 bucks and the model of Iawata mini compressor they knocked off for 700.


Harbor Freight 15 dollar airbrushes. Direct knock offs of Iawata HP-Bs. I tossed my Iawata out after I bought these. (My HPC was 300 bucks..)


Finally, my Ferrari. A normal painter will be just fine with a H.F. 30 dollar special, but I used to paint hot rods and customs, and I wanted one god damn it.

technical

That's the sander to get, but you need enough compressor to run it. Fits in the palm of your hand and feels like an extension of your arm. No fatique vs. some other models. The pad is key.

And LOL I have the same utility knife laying there in the back on the right.

mikewilson

This is really a nice thread. I know very much about guns from this Thread. pics are so nice. THANKS FOR POSTING.

Mr Incredible

All that stuff about sanding and body work that you can find on the web...learn it, love it, live it. You can't know too much going in.

It's not as difficult as I thought it would be, but tedious is an accurate word for all the sanding and straightening WAY before every touching a gun.

The things that I learned that stand out the most are:

1) Plenty of filtered ventilation. LOTS of ventilation.

2) Have plenty of solvents for cleaning wax/grease, guns, and many other things. Newbies go through a lot of it. Better to have too much than too little.

3) A good gun is a must for a good job. An expert can do well with a cheap gun, but a newb does well to spend a few more bucks for a good gun.

4) Don't get in a hurry. Take your time with the prep work. Think your way through what you're doing. Plan what you'll do before you open that jar/can of primer/paint. Practice your painting run with your gun and hose before you even turn on the compressor. Make sure you have enough room and your hose(s) don't kick up or kink.

5) Have plenty of light.

6) I will never do another paint job on any car without an air powered long board.

7) Most importantly, the two-part primer and the two-part sandable primer were both thick as can be. Heavy. Put on slowly and sometimes had to wait for the compressor to catch up. Then comes the color and the clear. Both of those were thin like water. Wasn't prepared for the difference and didn't move the gun fast enough. Lots of runs. You'll have to sand through ALL the color to get out the ghosts of the runs.

I enjoyed it even though it was a lot of work. The paint job I had wasn't as good as I'd hoped, but it was WAY better than what I'd feared.

Good luck.

blackesteyes8696

iTrader: (7)

Really good info... what about paint technique? Is it best to paint top to bottom of car, or opposite? About to paint my LT1 hugger orange really soon