Cam and gears question
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: El Paso, TX
Cam and gears question Got a 2001 Z06. Weaker 385 horse vs the 405 and now 505 hp versions.
Want to up grade a cam and gears to match it. What'd y'all recomend.
I did some drag racing before. I know it doesn't take that much RPM or peaky numbers to corner. Back in the days with a street/strip car on a three-fitty, we'd run a 292/306 .488/.510 on a 114 with 4.10's out back with a 28" inch tall tire on the street and 26" slicks on the track.
I'm new to this cornering thing. Help a humble newbie out please. Love to talk theory and then practice it. Want to get into SCCA or other type of road corse racing.
I'm a heavy duty mechanic, so I plan on doing all the work myself. Already have a OZ 700 clutch going in. Going with the billit steel flywheel. Was thinking about some 3.73's or 3.90's. Got Pirelli P Zero's at all four corners.
Found this at LGM
G2 224 224 .580 .580 114
G5 224 230 .581 .572 114
MTI
C2 224 224 .581 .581 112
G1 228 232 .588 .575 113
X1 230 227 .591 .571 112
R1 232 236 .575 .578 114
Z1 236 236 .585 .585 112
Figured that last one is getting up there in lift. Wanted to stay bellow .600". Still going to run double springs and shaft mounted roller fullcrum rockers. Do they make guide plates for these motors? I remember on the old ones they had RPM stablitty kits that had guide plates and other tricks.
Want to up grade a cam and gears to match it. What'd y'all recomend.
I did some drag racing before. I know it doesn't take that much RPM or peaky numbers to corner. Back in the days with a street/strip car on a three-fitty, we'd run a 292/306 .488/.510 on a 114 with 4.10's out back with a 28" inch tall tire on the street and 26" slicks on the track.
I'm new to this cornering thing. Help a humble newbie out please. Love to talk theory and then practice it. Want to get into SCCA or other type of road corse racing.
I'm a heavy duty mechanic, so I plan on doing all the work myself. Already have a OZ 700 clutch going in. Going with the billit steel flywheel. Was thinking about some 3.73's or 3.90's. Got Pirelli P Zero's at all four corners.
Found this at LGM
G2 224 224 .580 .580 114
G5 224 230 .581 .572 114
MTI
C2 224 224 .581 .581 112
G1 228 232 .588 .575 113
X1 230 227 .591 .571 112
R1 232 236 .575 .578 114
Z1 236 236 .585 .585 112
Figured that last one is getting up there in lift. Wanted to stay bellow .600". Still going to run double springs and shaft mounted roller fullcrum rockers. Do they make guide plates for these motors? I remember on the old ones they had RPM stablitty kits that had guide plates and other tricks.
Last edited by Castrellon; Nov 28, 2006 at 10:29 PM.
Originally Posted by Castrellon
Got a 2001 Z06. Weaker 385 horse vs the 405 and now 505 hp versions.
Want to up grade a cam and gears to match it. What'd y'all recomend.
I did some drag racing before. I know it doesn't take that much RPM or peaky numbers to corner. Back in the days with a street/strip car on a three-fitty, we'd run a 292/306 .488/.510 on a 114 with 4.10's out back with a 28" inch tall tire on the street and 26" slicks on the track.
I'm new to this cornering thing. Help a humble newbie out please. Love to talk theory and then practice it. Want to get into SCCA or other type of road corse racing.
I'm a heavy duty mechanic, so I plan on doing all the work myself. Already have a OZ 700 clutch going in. Going with the billit steel flywheel. Was thinking about some 3.73's or 3.90's. Got Pirelli P Zero's at all four corners.
Found this at LGM
G2 224 224 .580 .580 114
G5 224 230 .581 .572 114
MTI
C2 224 224 .581 .581 112
G1 228 232 .588 .575 113
X1 230 227 .591 .571 112
R1 232 236 .575 .578 114
Z1 236 236 .585 .585 112
Figured that last one is getting up there in lift. Wanted to stay bellow .600". Still going to run double springs and shaft mounted roller fullcrum rockers. Do they make guide plates for these motors? I remember on the old ones they had RPM stablitty kits that had guide plates and other tricks.
Want to up grade a cam and gears to match it. What'd y'all recomend.
I did some drag racing before. I know it doesn't take that much RPM or peaky numbers to corner. Back in the days with a street/strip car on a three-fitty, we'd run a 292/306 .488/.510 on a 114 with 4.10's out back with a 28" inch tall tire on the street and 26" slicks on the track.
I'm new to this cornering thing. Help a humble newbie out please. Love to talk theory and then practice it. Want to get into SCCA or other type of road corse racing.
I'm a heavy duty mechanic, so I plan on doing all the work myself. Already have a OZ 700 clutch going in. Going with the billit steel flywheel. Was thinking about some 3.73's or 3.90's. Got Pirelli P Zero's at all four corners.
Found this at LGM
G2 224 224 .580 .580 114
G5 224 230 .581 .572 114
MTI
C2 224 224 .581 .581 112
G1 228 232 .588 .575 113
X1 230 227 .591 .571 112
R1 232 236 .575 .578 114
Z1 236 236 .585 .585 112
Figured that last one is getting up there in lift. Wanted to stay bellow .600". Still going to run double springs and shaft mounted roller fullcrum rockers. Do they make guide plates for these motors? I remember on the old ones they had RPM stablitty kits that had guide plates and other tricks.
TECH Enthusiast
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 709
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From: DFW, Texas
i was told by a smart road racer who is also a pro, that you want to use as much gear as you can put in that will allow you to run 4th gear all the way down the fastest straight. basically, run what you can get away w/ that will allow you to not shift to 5th. but, i wouldn't go below a 3:42 gear. i wouldn't go above a 3:73 either.
Keep in mind that with the stock Z06 tranny, its like he already has 3.90's, so I would stick with that. Since the clutch is going it, it would be a good idea to go with an aluminum flywheel as itll help with the rev matching. I would also add a shift light. Other than that, your ready to roll as is.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: El Paso, TX
Originally Posted by DONAIMIAN
Keep in mind that with the stock Z06 tranny, its like he already has 3.90's, so I would stick with that. Since the clutch is going it, it would be a good idea to go with an aluminum flywheel as itll help with the rev matching. I would also add a shift light. Other than that, your ready to roll as is.
I've driven semi's at work and have to rev match, no synchros in a twin countershaft trans. These are all twin plate, dual mass set ups. Read that lighter FWs make for easier rev matching. Why? Less mass, quicker rev, less time on the throttle? This assumption correct?
Also, will I get more engine brake out of it than the stocker? Next best thing would be to talk Jacobs engine brakes into making a kit for my LS6. That would be fun.
down shift and then Brapapapapapapapapapap! 
I'd suggest racing the car on a stock cam at least once. figure out where you need the power most, then do a cam. If you have stock manifolds, some of the off-the shelf grinds may not be ideal as they work best on a car with headers. In fact you may want to headers first.
Originally Posted by Castrellon
I was going to get a textrailia OZ 700 with an 8lb Al FW, but that's been "phased out". So, I opted for the billet steel which is like 18lbs. What's the dual mass stocker come in at, 30lbs? Possibly 12lbs less. Will that be a huge difference when rev matching or down shifting?
I've driven semi's at work and have to rev match, no synchros in a twin countershaft trans. These are all twin plate, dual mass set ups. Read that lighter FWs make for easier rev matching. Why? Less mass, quicker rev, less time on the throttle? This assumption correct?
Also, will I get more engine brake out of it than the stocker? Next best thing would be to talk Jacobs engine brakes into making a kit for my LS6. That would be fun. down shift and then Brapapapapapapapapapap!
I've driven semi's at work and have to rev match, no synchros in a twin countershaft trans. These are all twin plate, dual mass set ups. Read that lighter FWs make for easier rev matching. Why? Less mass, quicker rev, less time on the throttle? This assumption correct?
Also, will I get more engine brake out of it than the stocker? Next best thing would be to talk Jacobs engine brakes into making a kit for my LS6. That would be fun.
down shift and then Brapapapapapapapapapap! Trending Topics
!LS1 11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,133
Likes: 2
From: Miami
I got into lapping on roadcourses almost 2 years ago. I've gone from a car with 560 crank hp ('02 SS) to a weaksause in comparison 232 hp RX8 (with a Stage II WRX in between). When I had the SS, I was fascinated with specifying a cam good for the roadcourse. I had a MUST GET RR CAM!!! Mentality. What I didn't realize was that I needed LESS horsepower to lap successfully as a novice!
Anyhow, once you get around to getting a cam in there for lapping, my research yielded something in the 228 through 234 range in duration (traditional split), about .57x lift, on a 110-112 lsa using either a Cam Motion lobe or a Comp XE lobe.
228/230
232/234
Were good ranges.
Anyhow, once you get around to getting a cam in there for lapping, my research yielded something in the 228 through 234 range in duration (traditional split), about .57x lift, on a 110-112 lsa using either a Cam Motion lobe or a Comp XE lobe.
228/230
232/234
Were good ranges.
Last edited by SouthFL.02.SS; Dec 6, 2006 at 11:05 PM.
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Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: El Paso, TX
Originally Posted by Ragtop 99
I'd suggest racing the car on a stock cam at least once. figure out where you need the power most, then do a cam. If you have stock manifolds, some of the off-the shelf grinds may not be ideal as they work best on a car with headers. In fact you may want to headers first.
LGM Longtube pros with the X, vortex CAI, bridge and coupling, muffler by-pass tubes. In a perfect world, theoretically speaking, about 427 at the flywheel.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: El Paso, TX
Originally Posted by DONAIMIAN
I didnt know that the stocker was dual mass. Anyways, I do know that the normal iorn flywheel is around 24lbs and the Al flywheel cuts that in half (assuming your using the fidanza aluminum fly, but the textrailia is even less at 8 for a loss of 16lbs) Any time you remove a significant amount of rotating weight from the car chances are it will be a noticable gain. With the flywheel, youll notice the engine revs faster and falls back to idle faster simply because of the less weight deal. You prolly wont notice anymore engine brake than stock, but thats not needed considering the car is already so light and with the right pad and tire set up you can most likley get your 60-0 distances close to 100ft. The onlyway I can think of increase engine braking is to increase the compression ratio. To me the addition of a jake brake would just be extra weight. Hope this helps and if you have any other questions let me know.
Had a friend weigh it, 23.5lbs. Wow, I beat the hell out of that thing if I burned off .5lb of material. Friction is about 6.5 and PP was about 22lbs.
About 60lbs total.
I guess I'll take the hoopty to the local track at the first play day and see what she does stock.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: El Paso, TX
How would I know one if I saw one? What's the tell-tale sign?
By the way, sent a PM to Lou and he said for what I want (solo, drag, street) the G5x3 was the best all around cam. He also recomends for all world performance 3.73 or 3.90. Don't go 4.10 unless I'm planning to road race at 7kRPM. I'm thinking conservitive 3.73's.
Wanted to put this up just for kicks to.
First C6R bought by some German dude, now selling for $750K USD
By the way, sent a PM to Lou and he said for what I want (solo, drag, street) the G5x3 was the best all around cam. He also recomends for all world performance 3.73 or 3.90. Don't go 4.10 unless I'm planning to road race at 7kRPM. I'm thinking conservitive 3.73's.
Wanted to put this up just for kicks to.
First C6R bought by some German dude, now selling for $750K USD
Last edited by Castrellon; Dec 9, 2006 at 04:39 AM.
!LS1 11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,133
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From: Miami
^
I personally wouldn't use an XER lobe (G5X3) on my recreational road course/street/drag car unless maintaining a vigilant eye on what's going on with the valvetrain, and using quality valvetrain components (lifters and rockers in particular).
I personally wouldn't use an XER lobe (G5X3) on my recreational road course/street/drag car unless maintaining a vigilant eye on what's going on with the valvetrain, and using quality valvetrain components (lifters and rockers in particular).
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: El Paso, TX
Originally Posted by SouthFL.02.SS
^
I personally wouldn't use an XER lobe (G5X3) on my recreational road course/street/drag car unless maintaining a vigilant eye on what's going on with the valvetrain, and using quality valvetrain components (lifters and rockers in particular).
I personally wouldn't use an XER lobe (G5X3) on my recreational road course/street/drag car unless maintaining a vigilant eye on what's going on with the valvetrain, and using quality valvetrain components (lifters and rockers in particular).
!LS1 11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,133
Likes: 2
From: Miami
Originally Posted by Castrellon
Why? Ramp too steep? To much lift? Affraid of coil bind or bad geometry with the rockers? I was going to put some Harland Sharp rockers in it, new cam kit to go with it. Please explain. Now you got me all worried about what I just listed.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: El Paso, TX
So, you're saying to skip the LG cams and go directly to the source for a 110/112 XE?
I looked at what Lou sells and they are all 112/114 or straight 114.
Won't this bleed off too much compression?
Also you said to run it +4 instead of straight up. Couldn't I just run a G5X1 +4, which is like the G5 I listed at the top but a split 112/114 but 224/232 and keep my compression? I've got static 10.5 to 1. If I go to 110, that's going to be more like 9.8:1 or <. Is that enough to have so much duration 226/228?
I looked at what Lou sells and they are all 112/114 or straight 114.
Won't this bleed off too much compression?
Also you said to run it +4 instead of straight up. Couldn't I just run a G5X1 +4, which is like the G5 I listed at the top but a split 112/114 but 224/232 and keep my compression? I've got static 10.5 to 1. If I go to 110, that's going to be more like 9.8:1 or <. Is that enough to have so much duration 226/228?
Last edited by Castrellon; Dec 11, 2006 at 06:15 PM.
!LS1 11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,133
Likes: 2
From: Miami
I think you already know this, given the terms you're using, but using 110 thru 112 LSA and advancing helps keep the powerband to the left, which is important when going with larger duration. If you stay with a smaller duration, you can use less advance (look at Patrick G's latest cam).
The Cam Motion spec I listed was something they custom tailored for me as a roadcourse/street/strip cam. It was for an F-bod, so, maybe you could go a bit larger (say, 228/230), given your car will weigh less.
In the end, it seems you're pretty knowledgeable and savvy around an engine, so perhaps using a G5X3 will be fine, as it seems like you're very able to check and maintain your valvetrain.
The Cam Motion spec I listed was something they custom tailored for me as a roadcourse/street/strip cam. It was for an F-bod, so, maybe you could go a bit larger (say, 228/230), given your car will weigh less.
In the end, it seems you're pretty knowledgeable and savvy around an engine, so perhaps using a G5X3 will be fine, as it seems like you're very able to check and maintain your valvetrain.
!LS1 11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,133
Likes: 2
From: Miami
Originally Posted by Castrellon
So, you're saying to skip the LG cams and go directly to the source for a 110/112 XE?
I looked at what Lou sells and they are all 112/114 or straight 114.
Won't this bleed of to much compression?
Also you said to run it +4 instead of straight up. Couldn't I just run a G5X1 +4, which is like the G5 I listed at the top but a split 112/114 but 224/232 and keep my compression? I've got static 10.5 to 1. If I go to 110, that's going to be more like 9.8:1 or <. Is that enough to have so much duration 226/228?
I looked at what Lou sells and they are all 112/114 or straight 114.
Won't this bleed of to much compression?
Also you said to run it +4 instead of straight up. Couldn't I just run a G5X1 +4, which is like the G5 I listed at the top but a split 112/114 but 224/232 and keep my compression? I've got static 10.5 to 1. If I go to 110, that's going to be more like 9.8:1 or <. Is that enough to have so much duration 226/228?
A G5X3 checks in more or less at: 234/242 duration, with .60x lift.
Thread Starter
Staging Lane
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: El Paso, TX
I guess, I'll have to ask Lou what the specs are for that cam at .006" since that's what my instructors tought me to go off of at tech school. This method tends to reveal a lil' more about the ramp. I figure this lobe is more like a trapazoid or square than an elipitcal shape.
!LS1 11 Second Club
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 7,133
Likes: 2
From: Miami
Originally Posted by Castrellon
I guess, I'll have to ask Lou what the specs are for that cam at .006" since that's what my instructors tought me to go off of at tech school. This method tends to reveal a lil' more about the ramp. I figure this lobe is more like a trapazoid or square than an elipitcal shape.
http://ourworld.cs.com/jrp98ls1/g5x2.jpg
XER checks in at 49 @ (.006 -.050)