Supercharged Z06 vs E85 GTR
10-22-2012, 12:59 PM
#41
yea, how many of those turbo cars did you play with? ever modify one? how did that go for you?
ill give you a hint. oh, its warm out? wgdc probably needs to be tweaked.. ah, higher altitude now, hope the load compensation tables aren't set up wrong... and the list goes on..
all the little things add up to watching everything all the time. are they fun and can be setup to deal with all situations? sure.. but it wont be as fast as it could be, and thats why we have a turbo anyway, so you better log everything at all times....
are we talking about battle of the factory OEMs or performance modding cars? do you think any of us care what OEM does in regards to how we boost something aftermarket? show me some big hp roots blown OEM cars..and ill show a centri car killing it on a roll...
ill give you a hint. oh, its warm out? wgdc probably needs to be tweaked.. ah, higher altitude now, hope the load compensation tables aren't set up wrong... and the list goes on..
all the little things add up to watching everything all the time. are they fun and can be setup to deal with all situations? sure.. but it wont be as fast as it could be, and thats why we have a turbo anyway, so you better log everything at all times....
are we talking about battle of the factory OEMs or performance modding cars? do you think any of us care what OEM does in regards to how we boost something aftermarket? show me some big hp roots blown OEM cars..and ill show a centri car killing it on a roll...
10-22-2012, 01:27 PM
#42
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I have MANY friends with turbo'd ls cars. One of my friends tunes all of them and him and his brother both have turbo trucks that make great power. Turbo cars around hereo run perfectly fine with a good tuner and make big power.. yes I am about to start my huron speed turbo build soon. Why do you think that so many factory cars are turbo'd and you don't see ANY procharger type factory cars? My point is if the procharger/vortech kits were better or even close you would see them on factory cars.... And as far as everthing changing with heat and elevation that is with any car not just turbo cars. You can say that about any car...
so, your conclusion is that you have no firsthand experience with a turbo car, so my experience and opinion is wrong, backed by the fact that turbo's offer efficiency and packaging and MPG, so OEM lean towards them.. got it.
you'll see when you build yours, the tweaking is less when its a car dedicated to just straightline acceleration, but i guarantee its not set and go.
if centri's were so bad, how do so many companies stay in business, how do centri cars rip up roots/TS type blown cars? how do they make more power than roots/TS cars?
just because US cars dont do it, doesnt mean they dont exist:
The Rotrex supercharger is standard on the Caterham Superlight R600, Caterham-Lola SP/300.R and the Caterham V8 Levante as well as the Castagna Aznom, the MELKUS RS2000 and the Spada Codatronca Monza.
and:
Novitec Rosso Ferrari 360 Supersport 606HP (Twin C30-94)
Novitec Rosso Ferrari 430 Evoluzione 707HP (Twin C30-94)
Novitec Rosso Ferrari 430 Scuderia 747HP (C38-81)
Novitec Rosso Ferari 430 Supersport 707HP (C38-81)
Koenigsegg CCX 806HP C38-81
Koenigsegg CCXR 1018HP C38-81
Koenigsegg CCXR Trevita 1018 HP C38-81
RUF Porsche Boxster 430HP C38-71
RUF Porsche Carrera 2-4 445HP C38-71
RUF Porsche Carrera 2S-4S 465HP C38-71
by your reasoning, why do roots blowers exist at all? Turbos are the best, but centri beats roots, and roots are oem..? maybe it has less to do about performance than it does packaging?
10-22-2012, 02:00 PM
#45
Staging Lane
10-22-2012, 02:07 PM
#46
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also, whats wrong with 9k rpm? not our fault not everyone wants to race an elephant that needs a short powerband
10-22-2012, 02:59 PM
#48
The original owner sent me dyno sheets with the car and it made 693rwhp in Colorado Springs CO. I bought it and brought it back to Louisiana. With the altitude change, the tune was off. I have no doubt with it set on kill, it would have made more here than it did in Colorado. All I know is the car put down 660 @ 5900rpm on a Mustang dyno with a conservitive tune. If you look at the video there is a huge Mustang Dynometer sign right behind it. This car was also built in 1999. I spoke with the owner of RMCR before buying it and they did not have the exact specs on the cam because they had a computer crash and lost some records. He did tell me that it was a very mild cam by today's standards and said that they had cams now (this was in 2006 btw) that would make a ton more power with that setup. I don't know of many 700rwhp LS1's were running around in 99 but I am betting that there were not as many as there are now. The car was fast as hell and had power everywhere in the rpm range. sweet99 you need to call up RMCR and tell them that they suck at building cars. Maybe some of you guys can give them some pointers. http://rmcrperformance.com/
10-22-2012, 03:05 PM
#49
Staging Lane
Look, it's fairly simple and I don't understand why people down play roots so much. I have the ability to make full torque at roughly 2,500rpm and I have managed a formula to PLANT it to the ground. I have a cam that opens at about 4k, giving me a centri-like push. The car is a total beast. The ability to plant power so low and sustain it up until 7k rpm makes it beastly.
A properly setup roots will give a centri a run for the money. I plant 6xx rwtq at 2.5k rpm and at around 4-5k rpm I'm at full hp. Most roots will faceplant after 5.5k but with a good setup you can hold that power band to your shift point. A centri needs to build up that torque like a turbo. Like I said a properly setup one is a beast also, but you can't compare low grunt roots to low grunt centri.
10-22-2012, 03:27 PM
#50
so, your conclusion is that you have no firsthand experience with a turbo car, so my experience and opinion is wrong, backed by the fact that turbo's offer efficiency and packaging and MPG, so OEM lean towards them.. got it.
you'll see when you build yours, the tweaking is less when its a car dedicated to just straightline acceleration, but i guarantee its not set and go.
if centri's were so bad, how do so many companies stay in business, how do centri cars rip up roots/TS type blown cars? how do they make more power than roots/TS cars?
just because US cars dont do it, doesnt mean they dont exist:
The Rotrex supercharger is standard on the Caterham Superlight R600, Caterham-Lola SP/300.R and the Caterham V8 Levante as well as the Castagna Aznom, the MELKUS RS2000 and the Spada Codatronca Monza.
and:
Novitec Rosso Ferrari 360 Supersport 606HP (Twin C30-94)
Novitec Rosso Ferrari 430 Evoluzione 707HP (Twin C30-94)
Novitec Rosso Ferrari 430 Scuderia 747HP (C38-81)
Novitec Rosso Ferari 430 Supersport 707HP (C38-81)
Koenigsegg CCX 806HP C38-81
Koenigsegg CCXR 1018HP C38-81
Koenigsegg CCXR Trevita 1018 HP C38-81
RUF Porsche Boxster 430HP C38-71
RUF Porsche Carrera 2-4 445HP C38-71
RUF Porsche Carrera 2S-4S 465HP C38-71
by your reasoning, why do roots blowers exist at all? Turbos are the best, but centri beats roots, and roots are oem..? maybe it has less to do about performance than it does packaging?
you'll see when you build yours, the tweaking is less when its a car dedicated to just straightline acceleration, but i guarantee its not set and go.
if centri's were so bad, how do so many companies stay in business, how do centri cars rip up roots/TS type blown cars? how do they make more power than roots/TS cars?
just because US cars dont do it, doesnt mean they dont exist:
The Rotrex supercharger is standard on the Caterham Superlight R600, Caterham-Lola SP/300.R and the Caterham V8 Levante as well as the Castagna Aznom, the MELKUS RS2000 and the Spada Codatronca Monza.
and:
Novitec Rosso Ferrari 360 Supersport 606HP (Twin C30-94)
Novitec Rosso Ferrari 430 Evoluzione 707HP (Twin C30-94)
Novitec Rosso Ferrari 430 Scuderia 747HP (C38-81)
Novitec Rosso Ferari 430 Supersport 707HP (C38-81)
Koenigsegg CCX 806HP C38-81
Koenigsegg CCXR 1018HP C38-81
Koenigsegg CCXR Trevita 1018 HP C38-81
RUF Porsche Boxster 430HP C38-71
RUF Porsche Carrera 2-4 445HP C38-71
RUF Porsche Carrera 2S-4S 465HP C38-71
by your reasoning, why do roots blowers exist at all? Turbos are the best, but centri beats roots, and roots are oem..? maybe it has less to do about performance than it does packaging?
10-22-2012, 03:35 PM
#52
The paxton 2200 head unit is good to a hair over 1000whp. That thing that made me choose it over the procharger, roush, vortech. Don't have to upgrade head unit. Roush runs out steam around 750whp. The KB seems to suck on the new mustang less want to run race gas. And then it just not doing the times others are. The 4.0l Whipple is great if you have a built engine to handle it and run 20lbs boost.
10-22-2012, 03:40 PM
#53
If the z06 had a decent setup and drive then it would've gone differently.
Look, it's fairly simple and I don't understand why people down play roots so much. I have the ability to make full torque at roughly 2,500rpm and I have managed a formula to PLANT it to the ground. I have a cam that opens at about 4k, giving me a centri-like push. The car is a total beast. The ability to plant power so low and sustain it up until 7k rpm makes it beastly.
A properly setup roots will give a centri a run for the money. I plant 6xx rwtq at 2.5k rpm and at around 4-5k rpm I'm at full hp. Most roots will faceplant after 5.5k but with a good setup you can hold that power band to your shift point. A centri needs to build up that torque like a turbo. Like I said a properly setup one is a beast also, but you can't compare low grunt roots to low grunt centri.
Look, it's fairly simple and I don't understand why people down play roots so much. I have the ability to make full torque at roughly 2,500rpm and I have managed a formula to PLANT it to the ground. I have a cam that opens at about 4k, giving me a centri-like push. The car is a total beast. The ability to plant power so low and sustain it up until 7k rpm makes it beastly.
A properly setup roots will give a centri a run for the money. I plant 6xx rwtq at 2.5k rpm and at around 4-5k rpm I'm at full hp. Most roots will faceplant after 5.5k but with a good setup you can hold that power band to your shift point. A centri needs to build up that torque like a turbo. Like I said a properly setup one is a beast also, but you can't compare low grunt roots to low grunt centri.
10-22-2012, 03:40 PM
#54
Staging Lane
The paxton 2200 head unit is good to a hair over 1000whp. That thing that made me choose it over the procharger, roush, vortech. Don't have to upgrade head unit. Roush runs out steam around 750whp. The KB seems to suck on the new mustang less want to run race gas. And then it just not doing the times others are. The 4.0l Whipple is great if you have a built engine to handle it and run 20lbs boost.
I was looking at a paxton before my tvs2300. I think they wanted like 5.7k for a full paxton kit and the exact same vortech kit was going for 7k+.
10-22-2012, 03:41 PM
#55
Staging Lane
But compare your torque numbers to a root. A root making 620-630rwhp will be making 600+ rwtq, where a centri will be rwhp - 100 = rwtq.
10-22-2012, 03:58 PM
#58
Explain further.... What horror stories do you hear of? Honestly though I LOVE roots blowers. I really wanted to put a maggi on mine, but they are really hard to make fit on these cars.... I just don't like how quiet the vortech/procharger units are... I LOVE the sound of turbo's and root's blowers.... My 2 favorite sounds in the world
10-22-2012, 04:08 PM
#59
Staging Lane
Explain further.... What horror stories do you hear of? Honestly though I LOVE roots blowers. I really wanted to put a maggi on mine, but they are really hard to make fit on these cars.... I just don't like how quiet the vortech/procharger units are... I LOVE the sound of turbo's and root's blowers.... My 2 favorite sounds in the world
10-22-2012, 04:27 PM
#60
Roots does make more power than my Vortech down low but.....
I drag race, make more peak power with the Vortech and run faster ET than a roots for sure on my car. Plus they weight less and don't get affected by heat soak as bad
I drag race, make more peak power with the Vortech and run faster ET than a roots for sure on my car. Plus they weight less and don't get affected by heat soak as bad
Last edited by Mike Morris; 10-22-2012 at 04:42 PM.