Why not make it simple and compare this http://m.summitracing.com/search/pro...-crate-engines to the lsx 454?

 

http://www.jegs.com/p/Chevrolet-Perf...75108/10002/-1 those are both companies max effort street small blocks. And the 454 out performs by 45hp with less cubes

 

Lsx454>460sbf by 30 ftlbs torque also.

 

Not chevy wheels on that thing. Those are AMC.
Wait a minute.....no new parts on the engine mounts. You bout had me backed up to a tbi 305 to get a edge. According to you own estimate your 351 z/gt40 was gonna make 380hp crank. That's not gonna keep up with a bolt-on ls1....even with your non production heads.

 

Anyone ever here how that Mustang did with that 392 ford racing engine that Jason put in?

 

No. I think Jason pissed him off.I would have liked to see how it did,even though it was a vert.

 

Me too......I don't think I ever got to hear it run.

 

You don't need for a cowl hood with a Windsor. No need for a long runner intake on a 351 in the first place. Use a short box upper and even a SN95 hood will clear. It will make more power and still have torque for days.

 

It isn't about a comparison... It's about HoHo claiming Ford engines "can't" and it's more than clear, they can do what he said they can't. What does one expect though, from a guy who never build any Ford N/A... or other Ford engines for that matter. Hell, he hasn't built any engine for any car... Why would he know what one is really capable of making for power?

 

Perhaps I missed it, did the 454LSx in Jegs say which induction was used to create the 620hp and 590ft lbs? I noticed the 460 SBF used a Super Victor intake and Holley 850cfm carb. With a good fuel injection set-up I seriously think the 460 SBF would be a little over 600hp, maybe real close to the 454's 620hp.

 

Both are carb numbers.

 

Read what you said buddy. You said "built". He said they can't with factory parts. How can you use all fms parts on one engine to compare it to a ls engine.

 

Besides I meant in production form, then you guys started throwing out combo's......then I threw combo's back. Ford just hasn't built a modern n/a engine to compete very well until the 5.0. That's all I was saying. I don't think there is anything misleading or slanderous about that. It is what is.

 

it's common knowledge.

 

Both engines would lose peak power and peak torque with efi. Only POSSIBLE exception would be a efi/carb setup like a victor/victor jr efi. Id like to see a back to back with that setup vs carb. I hate carbs! But all out power they normally win. Ill sacrifice 30 any day to have driveability when not used on a race car.

 

That is not what you said. You said factory parts with factory part#s. You can use factory parts to build one n/a. I have many listed many examples DESIGNED by the factory with factory part numbers. If you are talking used in a production car that is easy. 2000 Cobra was n/a. 380 at the crank. 1995 Cobra R was more than the LT1 stuff. You could bring up the LT5 but that was designed out of house and assembled out of hourse. How many times have you said Heater could not built his car using Ford parts? He could have duplicated what he had and his performance doing so. It just would have been expensive. Many of the parts they built and sold were CARBED approved. Reason they were not used in production is that they were not deemed needed. Hell in 1990 they were suppose to come out with a twin turbo 5.0 model. Reason it was shot down was a big wig's wife wrecked a stock car and said big wig felt a twin turbo was crazy to do. The Gt40 package was a result of that and it too was shot down from the bean counters. Gt40 aluminum heads(both versions) never made production but was based off of a production piece.

Lets be honest there was no need to make killer n/a stuff in the Mustang Gt which got slower and slower since 1990 to 1998. It sold like crazy and there was no need to improve it despite it lacking big time in terms of power. But claiming Ford couldn't or was not capable of n/a stuff is silly when they had aftermarket parts showing they could DESIGNED by them. Only reason GM has upper hand in n/a stuff during that period in the Fbodies was the handime down stuff from the Corvette. No Corvette and you can bet no L98,LT1 or LS1. If Ford had a Corvette type car I am sure the Mustang would have benefit as well.

If you are using production parts(which is twisting things around) the LS7 has the edge with small block stuff n/a no question.

 

Indeed I meant a 4 barrel EFI setup with a Super Victor intake in place of that Holley 850cfm carb would result in more performance. EFI is simply better.

And why do people even bother mentioning Victor Jr when talking high performance? Weak.

 

He and Mike worked that out quite clearly. He said it CAN'T be done with Ford parts... He was wrong, as usual. I wasn't involved in what Mike said so ask him.


You may as well have said... 'Besides, I MEANT TO SAY SOMETHING I DIDN'T SAY... That was before I was schooled again and, well... you remember telling everyone that I change it as I go so this is nothing new since the way I actually said it will simply never fit my narrative as long as you better educated more experienced guys are chiming in... '

You say all kinds of things out of turn, so... whatever. Fact is, until the LS1, Ford built OHV engined Mustangs that EASILY ran with their F-body counterparts in general terms.

In 1996, the Cobra was launched and ran mid 13's and the changes after it kept the car in that range until the 2003 Cobra. By the same token, in 1998, the F-body got to the 13's as well and until it left production, typically ran in that area. People like you ACT LIKE that wasn't at all the case, but it was, period.

12yrs after the F-body left production and 5yrs into the new Camaro, things have changed and the LS based engine has been modified greatly, to the point the new Camaro can't keep up with the old... particularly when the old uses a new engine. The Mustang took an entirely different direction and YOU say that's a bad thing. Then again, YOU don't understand engines or what truly makes them tick. Instead, you know the simple things and your answer for everything is "more cubes" while the world has moved on to better technology.

This is why you foolishly got into the debate you did here... You live in the past in terms of technology, but you know nothing about actually building an engine so you ASSUME that Ford can't do something you've never paid attention to anyone doing.

Ford 351W based engines have been powering Mustangs into the MID-6's on the 1/4 mile since 2001... When did you last see any Camaro do that? There's what 1960's tech can really do, if it's done right.

 

For a Fordd, EFI using the Super Victor 351W intake would allow for far more power. By comparison, I'd take a Vic Jr. to the scrap metal yard.

Today, carburetors have NO chance against EFI in terms of making power. I would expect it's not within 100hp and could be an even larger gap(by a bunch). Going to DI, it can get even uglier for carbs. For a street bruiser or weekend warrior, most would be fine either way, but EFI is much simpler to deal with and tuning issues don't really exist.

 

I forgot to bring up the 96 Cobra. Cobra could out run an LT1 fbody. It just was harder to do so. It was undergeared and you had to shift it right at the limiter to do it. If you did it and learned how to launch it was a solid 13 second car. I had a few guys like Bob Cosby and Mike Smith show me how to do it. Jerry Green(with Paul S driving) and Barry Shepard all raced n/a 4 valves and in stock trim kicked *** with them too. Even though the 98 Cobra was a tad faster the LS1 Fbodies were stronger in stock trim.

I can remember Bob Cosby with his 99 bolt on Cobra kicking LS1 *** on LS1.com years ago. They hated it too. Bob later got a Trans Am and hated the car and got rid of it. Guy could drive too.