Nurburgring question.
11-03-2002, 03:02 AM
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Nurburgring question. Was watching these fine European autos flyin along and was wondering what kind of suspension setups these kind of racers are running.
I notice really wide tires and very little gap between them and the fenders but also very little suspension travel.
How difficult is this to achieve realistically on a street car?
Are we talking lots of lightweight tubular components, dramatic weight loss, or super tight dampening system or all of the above?
I notice really wide tires and very little gap between them and the fenders but also very little suspension travel.
How difficult is this to achieve realistically on a street car?
Are we talking lots of lightweight tubular components, dramatic weight loss, or super tight dampening system or all of the above?
11-03-2002, 06:01 AM
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Re: Nurburgring question. Are you talking touring cars? If so, you can find a lot of info here. Those cars are so awesome man. This is probably the closest series to actual street cars. Nurburgring is cool, because you can go there and race around the track almost every weekend, all year long.
11-03-2002, 06:14 AM
#3
Re: Nurburgring question. http://www.nurburgring.org.uk/beginners.html
I like this part: "First, don't contemplate a trip there unless you're happy with the risks. There is around one death a month there, and countless more serious injuries".
I like this part: "First, don't contemplate a trip there unless you're happy with the risks. There is around one death a month there, and countless more serious injuries".
11-05-2002, 02:09 AM
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Re: Nurburgring question. Haha...oops...'bout forgot I posted this. Yes, pics good! Rain? Doesn't sound good.
Louis! Shouldn't you have some idea as to the suspension setups of these cars. Achievable in an f-body?
I would really like to get a super tight but controllable suspension for the street without trading one spring or shock or whatever for someone's opinion of something better. Then find out that I simply spent money on something different.
I realize not all my components are the best or maybe even appropriate but they're adequate for the time being. Again...I'd appreciate help with the parts (even custom fabbed), not 'necessarily' the brands.
They are currently:
Global West SFCs
Hotchkis STB
BMR LCAs & Brackets/Adj. PHR
S/T Swaybars
Eibach Prokit
KYB AGX 8-way
Airlift Rear bags
Paracing K-member & A-arms(mild) not installed yet
Also currently on Y2K C5 18s but soon to be OEM Z06 wheels and sizes.
Thanks,
Andy
Louis! Shouldn't you have some idea as to the suspension setups of these cars. Achievable in an f-body?
I would really like to get a super tight but controllable suspension for the street without trading one spring or shock or whatever for someone's opinion of something better. Then find out that I simply spent money on something different.
I realize not all my components are the best or maybe even appropriate but they're adequate for the time being. Again...I'd appreciate help with the parts (even custom fabbed), not 'necessarily' the brands.
They are currently:
Global West SFCs
Hotchkis STB
BMR LCAs & Brackets/Adj. PHR
S/T Swaybars
Eibach Prokit
KYB AGX 8-way
Airlift Rear bags
Paracing K-member & A-arms(mild) not installed yet
Also currently on Y2K C5 18s but soon to be OEM Z06 wheels and sizes.
Thanks,
Andy
11-05-2002, 10:55 AM
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Re: Nurburgring question. Take a look at LS1.com [auto+rr] SFC? from about a month ago.Gives some theory and photo's about low cost,super rigid F-body chassis work as the foundation for the type of suspension your talking about. Those guys get it that it's easy to have too stiff a suspension and impossible to have too stiff a chassis.
11-05-2002, 11:52 AM
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Re: Nurburgring question. I'll check that out. Haven't been over THERE in a while. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Smile]" src="gr_stretch.gif" />
I really wish there was a nice IR setup for these cars. I know at one time some guys had a full scale mock up of the new suspension. Seems like it was zturbo maybe??? Never saw anything else about it.
I just don't know if there is an improvement instead of replacement.
I really wish there was a nice IR setup for these cars. I know at one time some guys had a full scale mock up of the new suspension. Seems like it was zturbo maybe??? Never saw anything else about it.
I just don't know if there is an improvement instead of replacement.
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11-06-2002, 02:19 AM
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Re: Nurburgring question. Take your time. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" /> I'm sure my wallet needs plenty of R&R. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<small>[ November 06, 2002, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: WEASEL ]</small>
<small>[ November 06, 2002, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: WEASEL ]</small>
11-06-2002, 06:31 PM
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Re: Nurburgring question. It doesn't take much to drive the ring fast. Your best ally is memory. There is a couple of people in our club that can attest to that. When I first started in 98 driving the ring, my times were around 11 mins . Now my fastest time is 8 min 30 and a good warmup is 9min. My car has been driven to 8:05 by a ring regular ,but that is past my comfort zone for me to attempt. I took a ride in a Porsche GT3R and it clocked it in 6:50. Now that was cookin.
<img src="http://fbodyeurope.org/gallery/8_SS%20at%20the%20ring.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://fbodyeurope.org/gallery/8_SS%20at%20the%20ring.jpg" alt=" - " />
11-06-2002, 06:48 PM
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Re: Nurburgring question. Damn, I wish there were places like that over here in the states. I've always wanted to drive on the Nurburgring. One day I'll make it over there.
11-07-2002, 02:51 AM
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Re: Nurburgring question. Louis, actually that was at Hockenheimring. It was awesome. I plan to make Nurburgring my second home next year though... Drag racing is just not my thing. <img border="0" title="" alt="[Wink]" src="gr_images/icons/wink.gif" />
<img src="http://www.jackz28.com/myz/jack1.jpg" alt=" - " />
Here is Roy doing the same thing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<img src="http://www.fbodyeurope.org/gallery/8_Haulin-***.jpg" alt=" - " />
<img src="http://www.jackz28.com/myz/jack1.jpg" alt=" - " />
Here is Roy doing the same thing! <img border="0" title="" alt="[Big Grin]" src="gr_grin.gif" />
<img src="http://www.fbodyeurope.org/gallery/8_Haulin-***.jpg" alt=" - " />
11-08-2002, 04:53 PM
#15
Re: Nurburgring question. Weasel, I'll take a stab with your current suspension.
Global West SFCs - OK
Hotchkis STB - OK
BMR LCAs & Brackets/Adj. PHR - what are the ends made of? From experience, go with G2 LCA's. They simply work. The point is to get adjustability and rod ends for no flexing. Same with the PHR.
S/T Swaybars - again , what size? What size tires are you running? These play a part.
Eibach Prokit - ok, or G2's
KYB AGX 8-way - terrible for autox OR roadrace. Go with either Koni's SA/DA or else Sam Strano revalved Bilsteins. These make a monstrous improvement.
Airlift Rear bags - unknown to me ( I'm being honest ) as to the effects for autox or roadrace.
All I can tell you is what I've experienced. The shocks, springs, swaybars and tires all work in concert. You need different setups for different events. And , you can ride around on the streets as I do IF you don't mind replacing parts much more often over stock. Welcome to the club.
Talk to Lou, he will help you out.
You can also look at torque arms, poly to replace rubber, and lots of practice; nothing beats seat time.
Also, don't forget the most important other thing; a decent brake system to stop all the speed.
Global West SFCs - OK
Hotchkis STB - OK
BMR LCAs & Brackets/Adj. PHR - what are the ends made of? From experience, go with G2 LCA's. They simply work. The point is to get adjustability and rod ends for no flexing. Same with the PHR.
S/T Swaybars - again , what size? What size tires are you running? These play a part.
Eibach Prokit - ok, or G2's
KYB AGX 8-way - terrible for autox OR roadrace. Go with either Koni's SA/DA or else Sam Strano revalved Bilsteins. These make a monstrous improvement.
Airlift Rear bags - unknown to me ( I'm being honest ) as to the effects for autox or roadrace.
All I can tell you is what I've experienced. The shocks, springs, swaybars and tires all work in concert. You need different setups for different events. And , you can ride around on the streets as I do IF you don't mind replacing parts much more often over stock. Welcome to the club.
Talk to Lou, he will help you out.
You can also look at torque arms, poly to replace rubber, and lots of practice; nothing beats seat time.
Also, don't forget the most important other thing; a decent brake system to stop all the speed.
11-09-2002, 02:07 AM
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Re: Nurburgring question. </font><blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr /><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Originally posted by Viper:
<strong>Weasel, I'll take a stab with your current suspension.
Global West SFCs - OK
Hotchkis STB - OK
BMR LCAs & Brackets/Adj. PHR - what are the ends made of? From experience, go with G2 LCA's. They simply work. The point is to get adjustability and rod ends for no flexing. Same with the PHR.
S/T Swaybars - again , what size? What size tires are you running? These play a part.
Eibach Prokit - ok, or G2's
KYB AGX 8-way - terrible for autox OR roadrace. Go with either Koni's SA/DA or else Sam Strano revalved Bilsteins. These make a monstrous improvement.
Airlift Rear bags - unknown to me ( I'm being honest ) as to the effects for autox or roadrace.
All I can tell you is what I've experienced. The shocks, springs, swaybars and tires all work in concert. You need different setups for different events. And , you can ride around on the streets as I do IF you don't mind replacing parts much more often over stock. Welcome to the club.
Talk to Lou, he will help you out.
You can also look at torque arms, poly to replace rubber, and lots of practice; nothing beats seat time.
Also, don't forget the most important other thing; a decent brake system to stop all the speed.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey, thanks. Much closer to the reply I was looking for. Let me first say though that I'm not about to start racing. Not that I wouldn't love to but the inherent risks to car, insurance, wallet aren't in the cards for me right now. Someday maybe but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the abilities of a well tuned and thoughtout suspension to make a car get around the turns and over the hills.
My opinion of my cars weaknesses are the springs/shocks where I'd like to eliminate the airbags and the LCAs (poly/rubber). For the street, these parts all work pretty well together though.
This has been on 275/35/18 x4 to 275/40/18F--295/35/18R and about to be 275/40/17F--295/35/18R. Swaybars are 35/25.
Steering is neutral to a slight oversteer, minimal roll and dive or body flex, and even the suspension travel in the front is pretty good but the rear just drives me nuts. Curves and hills don't seem to be the main problem. It's the bumpy straight roads that just make my car feel like sh*t to me.
The rear springs are too soft and the shocks can't handle it, hence, the airbags for insurance against bottoming out. However now with an empty tank, the car feels waaay too bouncy. With a full tank, it seems to restrict the movement and handle dips and bumps much better. I want it to handle like the latter ALL THE TIME.
I realize public roads and tracks are not the same but I want the ability to handle both. I had HD Bilsteins on a nonlowered '96 Formula and was not THAT impressed. How they handle on lowered cars, I don't know. I'd like to try the Koni's. But is that the way to go or would a true coilover front and rear suspension be best?
Better LCAs are in my future too but the upkeep on ends is the holdup. Do I really need spherical ends for that lowly PHR?
Opinions?
<strong>Weasel, I'll take a stab with your current suspension.
Global West SFCs - OK
Hotchkis STB - OK
BMR LCAs & Brackets/Adj. PHR - what are the ends made of? From experience, go with G2 LCA's. They simply work. The point is to get adjustability and rod ends for no flexing. Same with the PHR.
S/T Swaybars - again , what size? What size tires are you running? These play a part.
Eibach Prokit - ok, or G2's
KYB AGX 8-way - terrible for autox OR roadrace. Go with either Koni's SA/DA or else Sam Strano revalved Bilsteins. These make a monstrous improvement.
Airlift Rear bags - unknown to me ( I'm being honest ) as to the effects for autox or roadrace.
All I can tell you is what I've experienced. The shocks, springs, swaybars and tires all work in concert. You need different setups for different events. And , you can ride around on the streets as I do IF you don't mind replacing parts much more often over stock. Welcome to the club.
Talk to Lou, he will help you out.
You can also look at torque arms, poly to replace rubber, and lots of practice; nothing beats seat time.
Also, don't forget the most important other thing; a decent brake system to stop all the speed.</strong></font><hr /></blockquote><font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Hey, thanks. Much closer to the reply I was looking for. Let me first say though that I'm not about to start racing. Not that I wouldn't love to but the inherent risks to car, insurance, wallet aren't in the cards for me right now. Someday maybe but that doesn't mean I don't appreciate the abilities of a well tuned and thoughtout suspension to make a car get around the turns and over the hills.
My opinion of my cars weaknesses are the springs/shocks where I'd like to eliminate the airbags and the LCAs (poly/rubber). For the street, these parts all work pretty well together though.
This has been on 275/35/18 x4 to 275/40/18F--295/35/18R and about to be 275/40/17F--295/35/18R. Swaybars are 35/25.
Steering is neutral to a slight oversteer, minimal roll and dive or body flex, and even the suspension travel in the front is pretty good but the rear just drives me nuts. Curves and hills don't seem to be the main problem. It's the bumpy straight roads that just make my car feel like sh*t to me.
The rear springs are too soft and the shocks can't handle it, hence, the airbags for insurance against bottoming out. However now with an empty tank, the car feels waaay too bouncy. With a full tank, it seems to restrict the movement and handle dips and bumps much better. I want it to handle like the latter ALL THE TIME.
I realize public roads and tracks are not the same but I want the ability to handle both. I had HD Bilsteins on a nonlowered '96 Formula and was not THAT impressed. How they handle on lowered cars, I don't know. I'd like to try the Koni's. But is that the way to go or would a true coilover front and rear suspension be best?
Better LCAs are in my future too but the upkeep on ends is the holdup. Do I really need spherical ends for that lowly PHR?
Opinions?
