how do I build max torque? GN (lc2) going LSx?
08-31-2009, 06:46 AM
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how do I build max torque? GN (lc2) going LSx? I have an 86 GN with the mostly orignal LC2 in it. I am planning on selling the eng/trans to help fund the swap. I love the GN but, the vendor sources are becoming fewer and I want something that is more reliable than this 23 year old technology. I'm still keeping the GN look, I just want more reliable power.
My question is how do I get max torque of of these engines? The 3.8 is know for it and that's what gives it an edge over higher displacement V8s. I still want that power without having to take thing beyond 6K rpm before I see power.
My plans were for a turbo LQ4 with 4L80 transmission. How do I get the wide torque curve out of this combo? Who has been down this road? I see the G-body swaps but, none seem to address torque as much as I had hoped.
Thanks for input.
My question is how do I get max torque of of these engines? The 3.8 is know for it and that's what gives it an edge over higher displacement V8s. I still want that power without having to take thing beyond 6K rpm before I see power.
My plans were for a turbo LQ4 with 4L80 transmission. How do I get the wide torque curve out of this combo? Who has been down this road? I see the G-body swaps but, none seem to address torque as much as I had hoped.
Thanks for input.
08-31-2009, 11:31 AM
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nooooooooo..... dont ruin a perfectly good GN, there aren't that many out there. why not sell the whole car, then with the money get a normal regal to swap the motor into and make it look like a GN.
08-31-2009, 11:47 AM
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I thought about that but, it's no show winner right now and the frame is getting boxed LS engine or not. I thought about selling it and getting an T with t-tops and doing the swap on that. My GN has T-Tops and I really like them when the are out. So, not many regals came that way and I would see very little difference in money by the end of the project.
The kicker for me is the engine needs to be rebuilt. I have a spare 109 block that needs machine work + engine girdle + forged crank + bigger turbo and injectors. I have forged pistons and a new cam. Why not just make an awesome street machine that is much more reliable than the 23 year old V6 could ever be? I look at total dollars in in order to get 500hp+ and not worry about destroying the thing when I get on it. The lc2 is great but, is prone to failure when pushed or cost a ton of money to get it at the 500hp+ mark and survive.
The kicker for me is the engine needs to be rebuilt. I have a spare 109 block that needs machine work + engine girdle + forged crank + bigger turbo and injectors. I have forged pistons and a new cam. Why not just make an awesome street machine that is much more reliable than the 23 year old V6 could ever be? I look at total dollars in in order to get 500hp+ and not worry about destroying the thing when I get on it. The lc2 is great but, is prone to failure when pushed or cost a ton of money to get it at the 500hp+ mark and survive.
Last edited by klrv6; 08-31-2009 at 11:55 AM.
08-31-2009, 12:17 PM
#4
The torque curves on a stock engine are pretty damn flat the way it is. Getting 500 HP is as easy as a 6.0 motor and the right cam. But you do trade a little low end grunt to get the 500 number up top.
you could always do it the same way your GN did, forced induction. A turbo or blower will unquestionably build some insane numbers at pretty much any RPM you want it at.
This book is a little dated already (came out before the LS2's) but it has plenty of good information about different cams and intakes and such. Everything is backed up with a dyno chart.
you could always do it the same way your GN did, forced induction. A turbo or blower will unquestionably build some insane numbers at pretty much any RPM you want it at.
This book is a little dated already (came out before the LS2's) but it has plenty of good information about different cams and intakes and such. Everything is backed up with a dyno chart.
08-31-2009, 12:36 PM
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It's your car, do what you want but here are two points.
Given a GN is a collector, it is worth far more as stock than just another modded 'G' body. Once you start to modify, a lot of that value will be lost.
You could help your fund even more buy selling the GN to someone who wants and will pay for a "GN'. Buy a Regal or other 'G' body that needs a motor / trans and mod away. I have seen a few very nice to mint Regals time to time that needed engine work for dirt cheap.
Given a GN is a collector, it is worth far more as stock than just another modded 'G' body. Once you start to modify, a lot of that value will be lost.
You could help your fund even more buy selling the GN to someone who wants and will pay for a "GN'. Buy a Regal or other 'G' body that needs a motor / trans and mod away. I have seen a few very nice to mint Regals time to time that needed engine work for dirt cheap.
Last edited by enganeer; 08-31-2009 at 12:57 PM.
08-31-2009, 12:40 PM
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I thought about that but, it's no show winner right now and the frame is getting boxed LS engine or not. I thought about selling it and getting an T with t-tops and doing the swap on that. My GN has T-Tops and I really like them when the are out. So, not many regals came that way and I would see very little difference in money by the end of the project.
The kicker for me is the engine needs to be rebuilt. I have a spare 109 block that needs machine work + engine girdle + forged crank + bigger turbo and injectors. I have forged pistons and a new cam. Why not just make an awesome street machine that is much more reliable than the 23 year old V6 could ever be? I look at total dollars in in order to get 500hp+ and not worry about destroying the thing when I get on it. The lc2 is great but, is prone to failure when pushed or cost a ton of money to get it at the 500hp+ mark and survive.
The kicker for me is the engine needs to be rebuilt. I have a spare 109 block that needs machine work + engine girdle + forged crank + bigger turbo and injectors. I have forged pistons and a new cam. Why not just make an awesome street machine that is much more reliable than the 23 year old V6 could ever be? I look at total dollars in in order to get 500hp+ and not worry about destroying the thing when I get on it. The lc2 is great but, is prone to failure when pushed or cost a ton of money to get it at the 500hp+ mark and survive.
I dont know I still think you would end up money ahead if you sold the car as a whole and started with a different one, but who knows maybe not. It would just be a real shame to tear up such a rare car.
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08-31-2009, 12:50 PM
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I will be going the turbo route on this one. Trust me, if it weren't for all the cash i would have to put into this thing to make it back to what a GN was, I wouldn't be doing the swap. The frame is in great shape but, the body and interior are in need of some serious love. The price for the car is between 6500 and 10K. I can get a fair amount for the eng/trans + parts + spare engines.
09-01-2009, 11:20 AM
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I am very excited about the build. The LC2 is awesome but, for many reasons prices are reaching a point where it is very hard to justify on a car that is not in pristine shape. The cam sensor alone can go for upwards of $300. The ignition and SFI are great but, the block they ride on will have failures when pushed as hard as I hope to. As stated before, I have my hoarding of 3.8 engines and parts I will be selling to help fund this project.
It seems that I will be looking at a custom grind cam that will allow for real smooth idle and be designed for a turbocharged engine. WooHoo!!! I will have a fast car that I'm not afraid to go on a 1000 mile drive if I want.
It seems that I will be looking at a custom grind cam that will allow for real smooth idle and be designed for a turbocharged engine. WooHoo!!! I will have a fast car that I'm not afraid to go on a 1000 mile drive if I want.
09-01-2009, 11:38 AM
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I am very excited about the build. The LC2 is awesome but, for many reasons prices are reaching a point where it is very hard to justify on a car that is not in pristine shape. The cam sensor alone can go for upwards of $300. The ignition and SFI are great but, the block they ride on will have failures when pushed as hard as I hope to. As stated before, I have my hoarding of 3.8 engines and parts I will be selling to help fund this project.
It seems that I will be looking at a custom grind cam that will allow for real smooth idle and be designed for a turbocharged engine. WooHoo!!! I will have a fast car that I'm not afraid to go on a 1000 mile drive if I want.
It seems that I will be looking at a custom grind cam that will allow for real smooth idle and be designed for a turbocharged engine. WooHoo!!! I will have a fast car that I'm not afraid to go on a 1000 mile drive if I want.
09-01-2009, 12:33 PM
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Not sure. I bought the car for $6500. It has auburn posi and power everything,,,oh and I love the t-tops. I have to get a replacement with those. So, If I get between 3000 and 3500 for my parts, I am not that much into the car. Could I find a roller for that much to the point it would be worth the effort?
09-01-2009, 12:43 PM
#16
Not sure. I bought the car for $6500. It has auburn posi and power everything,,,oh and I love the t-tops. I have to get a replacement with those. So, If I get between 3000 and 3500 for my parts, I am not that much into the car. Could I find a roller for that much to the point it would be worth the effort?
09-01-2009, 01:06 PM
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09-01-2009, 01:13 PM
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Yep, you're right...it would be tough to find an 86-87 T-top Regal with a straight body for $3500. I thought a Cutlass/442/Hurst would be cool cause they came with V8's...but I understand if you don't want one. Unless your GN looks like it was buffed with a belt sander you got a good deal on that.
09-01-2009, 01:19 PM
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They made a **** load of GN's in 86-87. More in 87. I say cut it up and make all the others worth more. It's your car so do what you want to it. Use a 6.0l with an 04 ZO6 cam and springs, Turbonetics T76 w/.96 a/r ball bearing if you can swing it, stock motor, 72lbs injectors, A-1000 pump and reg, alky control meth kit. Run it on pump gas with 16-18psi and 17* timing and replace 18% of your fuel under boost with the meth. You should put at least low-mid 600's down for torque to the wheels. Maybe more if you tune it right. Just my $.02 worth. You should get about 4-5 usuable combos here on the board and pic between them.
Your rear will hold up just fine. Maybe swap up to a good set of axles. Use a good lockable conveter in the 4L80 as well. Gears you have are fine. lets see it happen! Cheers!
Your rear will hold up just fine. Maybe swap up to a good set of axles. Use a good lockable conveter in the 4L80 as well. Gears you have are fine. lets see it happen! Cheers!
09-01-2009, 01:45 PM
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They made a **** load of GN's in 86-87. More in 87. I say cut it up and make all the others worth more. It's your car so do what you want to it. Use a 6.0l with an 04 ZO6 cam and springs, Turbonetics T76 w/.96 a/r ball bearing if you can swing it, stock motor, 72lbs injectors, A-1000 pump and reg, alky control meth kit. Run it on pump gas with 16-18psi and 17* timing and replace 18% of your fuel under boost with the meth. You should put at least low-mid 600's down for torque to the wheels. Maybe more if you tune it right. Just my $.02 worth. You should get about 4-5 usuable combos here on the board and pic between them.
Your rear will hold up just fine. Maybe swap up to a good set of axles. Use a good lockable conveter in the 4L80 as well. Gears you have are fine. lets see it happen! Cheers!
Your rear will hold up just fine. Maybe swap up to a good set of axles. Use a good lockable conveter in the 4L80 as well. Gears you have are fine. lets see it happen! Cheers!