GC99TA

iTrader: (30)

Looks great man! Seeing your ATI dampner installed with an ARP bolt reminded me of something stupid I did recently, so I thought I'd tell on myself. When I was doing my recent cam swap, I pulled the ARP crank bolt out and installed my puller. But once I started tightening it down, I couldn't for the life of me figure out why the dampener wouldn't budge. Luckily, for once I didn't get too stubborn with it and stepped back to scratch my head for a minute. Then it occured to me.......unlike the stock crank bolts, there was a nice big thick washer on the ARP bolt when I installed it. And guess what.....it was still in there. DAMNIT!!! It's funny how easly that thing came off once I stopped pressing against the washer and started pressing against the crank.......man did I feel like a dumbass....

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

LMAO!! Man that sounds like something I would do.

The new crank has too small of an opening to use a standard installer so I had to improvise. The thread-all worked great until about the last 1/8". I didnt have any way of locking the crank down (you were right Bandit). So I figured with as much thread engagement I had at this point the ARP bolt would work fine and it did. Here is where I am stumped though. ARP recommends you to use their moly lube, which I did. ATI wants you to use red Loctite on an ARP crank bolt if used with their balancer. If I used red Loctite the balancer would never come off, maybe thats key to the reasoning behind it, huh!!! Whats you guys thoughts on the red Loctite? I have used it in the past with nothing but destructive results in the end. I know you have to heat it before removing the bolt. The problem on the crank bolt is the threads are sooo deep, I dont see how you could get them hot enough to make a difference.

lizeec

iTrader: (57)

Yes that red loctite is some bad *** stuff, loctite makes a green one that makes that red loctite look like Elmer's glue, that's a tough call you have there, I think I would use the red as in the instructions but just in a moderate amount. Hopefully you don't have to mess with or remove anything from this engine for a long time.

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

Your right on the "Mean Green", we use the green here at work to affix bearings to shafts! As tight of a fit as the harmonic balancer is to the crankshaft, I could prolly get by with no bolt, lol. I am going to cal ARP and ask them. I am sure they have sold a few of these bolts to people running an ATI balancer. I would hate to see the balancer come through the hood turning 7,000 rpms!

GC99TA

iTrader: (30)

I didn't use any Loctite on my ARP balancer bolt and I honestly don't remember ATI wanting you to do so? I do remember that they did want you to use it on the three 12-point bolts that go into the face of the balancer though, so maybe that's what you misread? Or hell......maybe I misread....LOL.

Either way, I felt like my ATI had an extremely good interference fit and isn't likely to go anywhere........even without a bolt just like you said. I used the ARP Moly Lube on my balancer bolt and it was still plenty tight when I did my cam swaps......and that was after pleny of trips to 7K RPM. Even still, it's probably one of those things that I'll just throw a socket on once or twice a year and check for preventive maintenance sake.

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

I went down to the garage and looked through the entire instructions again and could not find the part where "red" Loctite was mentioned. I started to think I had dreamed it somehow. Then I convinced myself I dreamed it. That is until I remembered going online and looking around for the LS1 installation guide. Eureka!! Evidentily its not important to loctite the crank bolt or they would have included it in the actual hard copy instructions. Here is a snap shot of it from ATI's website under LS1/LS7 installation manual. It is at the bottom of the page and specifically names ARP crank bolt. Sorry Gary you were right and wrong all at the same time. Or I was one!

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

Now for a bigger question, who the heck has a torque wrench that goes up to 250 ft/lbs and if you did have such a device, how would you hold the crank to tighten it that tight? I used my handy dandy torque wrench I like to call "impact gun" that has a reversing torque of 900ft/lbs.

GC99TA

iTrader: (30)

Well, that figures.......if someone could f*@k up being right....it would be me....LOL.

Believe it or not, my Craftsman "clicker" torque wrench maxes out at 250ft/lbs. The "right" way to hold the crank would be to use one of those tools that bolts in place of the starter and meshes solidly with the flywheel/flexplate to hold it solidly in place.

Now the redneck way (aka the way I did it).......I ran a bolt through my flex plate and into a deep section of webbing on the back of the block. It scared the bejesus out of me to do it.....but it worked. On my Trans Am (since it has a six speed), I put the car in 6th gear, set the parking brake, and gave er hell. That seemed to work pretty good and didn't make me nearly as nervous as the method I used on the Camaro......damn automatics....LOL.

I'm sure your impact worked great and probably saved your back!

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

Your not alone my friend!!!

May just have to buy a Craftsman. About every 1/2" drive torque wrench I see maxes at 150 or so.



Yeah I seen Bandits new tool he made. The only issue I had with that was my short block is on my engine stand and I could not get the flywheel on it while it was on there. I guess I could have blocked up the old engine, removed the new one, added the flywheel, and the mount back on mt engine stand. Call me lazy but it was easier to set the impact on medium and let her rip. I guess once the engine is back in and bolted to the tranny I could always go back and retorque it. I have used your redneck engine stopping method before with great success!! There again dont feel alone or ashamed as I share the same tactics as you and will also share the humiliation by our peers!

OldCobraGuy

iTrader: (2)

Don't worry about loctite Tony. You won't need it. I've never run it...with some very exotic motors...and never had a problem if the bolt is properly torqued.

I hold my engine (crank) the same way. I have a grade 8 shoulder bolt that fits perfect in hole in the flywheel. I let it nestle up against the block and either remove or tighten the balancer bolt. One side of the block you remove, the other side you install.

GC99TA

iTrader: (30)

YOU'RE LAZY!!! Just kidding man, I don't blame you a bit! That's a lot of dicking around to do when you've got a good impact to do the job. I would venture to guess most "professional" install shops do it the same exact way. Engine builders that are working on an engine stand probably use the holder tool, but if the motor is in the car and a shop is doing a cam swap, I'll bet it's an impact all day long on that bolt!

Hell, I wish my impact had some *****. Mines so bad, I have to break my lugnuts loose first with a 4-way or breaker bar/socket and then I just use the impact to spin em off once they're loose. Pretty sorry piece of equipment, but I got what I paid for . I'm ashamed to say where I bought it, but it starts with "W" and ends with "almart". One day I'll open my wallet a lil further and buy a real mans impact gun. I bought this one when I was a kid.

bmf5150

I have the digital craftsman torque wrench,that's what I used !

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

Thanks! I am figuring if it were that important ATI should have included those instructions with the balancer and not make me dig for it on their site. And make it the last statement at that!

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

GC99TA wrote:
They had compressed air back then???

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

I hear ya, Fancy Pants!! Lol just kidding, I will have to check it out online. What is the range of torque for the one you have and do you have a model number??

game-over

something that could be used in this thread....

i think if you created a index in your first post it would be easier for people to search your thread lol....


just like.. i know youmost likely did everything im looking for.. i just am i having a hard time searching 130439 pages...

index tony... index

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

I just need to start a fresh one and put everything in order with out all the filler. Its hard for me to stay on targer, I must be ADHD. I tend to ramble.

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

The stock GM main cap bolts have a M8 stud for the windage tray, the ARP main studs have M10x1.25mm. Somehow the nuts for the windage tray were left in Mooresville. I went to three different specialty bolt vendors without anything but standard flange nuts. I called Jonathan(engine builder) and he said the ARP's were similar with the smooth mating surface. So I used the ones I bought and loctited them on and torqued to 28 ft/lbs. i figure if ten nuts wont hold the windage tray on then I guess it needs to fall off.

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On the LQ4 blocks there is a bolt hole missing in the oil pan rail. I took this opportunity to go ahead and sot, drill and tap it.

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Head gasket surfaces cleaned up. I clean the heads up as well.

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Heads are on, one step closer.

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With the new cam, and block decked I wanted to verify the push rod length is correct. I am actually better than I thought. With the old 6.0 I was at .065" lifter preload, which to some is low. I did have some valvetrain noise before but from what I am hearing the push rod length will not matter much. I now have .077" so maybe just maybe with the new LS7 lifters the valvetrain noise will be down to a minimum.

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I have made a bad purchase once again! Damn! These valve covers suck *** crack! They look better than they perform for sure. The gaskets went in nice and tight and they came with hardware which was a plus. Nice billet filler cap. Now for the bad, the stock valve covers have a sleeve that prevent the valve cover from collapsing when torquing the bolts the sheetmetals ones dont. The stock torque value is 106 in/lbs so I figured i would start at 65in/lbs for these. After they were torqued the long sides pushed out considerably. So much on one side that the gasket was poking out. I took a c-clamp and squeezed it back to its original shape and tried a torque value of 30in/lbs and the covers didn't push out. The problem with using 30 in/lbs is the valve cover now moves around and is not tight at all. Now onto the next issue, the Kwik bracket was hitting the valve cover so the bracket needed to be modified. And last but not least the coils are now mounted higher than before so that means the two modified plug wires will now need to be lengthened. I am sourcing out some stock LS3 or LY6 valve covers to replace them with. If you know anyone that has a set and wants to sell them shoot me a PM.

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Back side of the Kwik bracket modified for the shitty valve covers. Luckily it will be hidden once installed.

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GC99TA

iTrader: (30)

I'm sorry to hear about your valve cover issues, but the 408 is looking great! I know you've probably covered this before, so I appologize for not going back through and finding for myself but.....what is the compression ratio gonna be on this beast? I noticed you said the block was decked. Was that just a general clean up decking or did they remove a lot of material? I'm just curious how far the pistons are out of the hole what gaskets (thickness) you're gonna run.

Again man.....everything's looking nice and clean......great job!

tsnow678

iTrader: (3)

Thanks Gary!!

I didn't measure how far the piston are out of the hole. If I was a guessing man, I would say .020". I am using stock GM L92/LS3 MLS head gaskets. I believe they have a compressed thickness of .051". I would say the machine shop just squared up the top of the block.
Jonathan @ Tick Performance said I should be in the 11.25-11.5:1