chrismcdaniel

iTrader: (14)

after reading all of "427's" post about the new dart heads,( https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...3&page=1&pp=20)
im still at a loss. I received my summit mag. in the mail today and they had the new Darts in it for an awsome price..

$951.90 bare castings
$1279.76 assembled

Same preice for eithe the 205 cc or the 225 cc.

So, I am about to purchase a 408 ci, and am going to be buying a 225 cc set of heads, but can some one tell me how these Darts stack up against the ETP's and The AFR's.. I always assume if its to good to be true, it probably is.

Do the darts really require additional port work on them to stack up against these other two, or are they good out of the Box??

thanks,
chris

CAT3

iTrader: (9)

Dart doesnt make a 245cc, neither does AFR, but ETP Does You already know what I'd say.

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

His post says 225's and if you know what CAT3 is gonna say then you know what I am gonna say.
I personially believe the ETP is the best head in the LS1 market period.
The only head better then their LS1 style heads are there LS7 style heads.

chrismcdaniel

iTrader: (14)

for over $3000, they damn well better be!!

CAT3

iTrader: (9)

Chris, buy the flow now, or wish you had later. I said 245's for a more fitting 408ci, seeings how I kinda know what your goals with that buildup are, I'd say 245's are a good choice, but ETP's either way.

DrkPhx

iTrader: (15)

You can't go wrong with the AFR 225. It's a top of the line head with fantastic CNC work and performs accordingly. There are some sponsors here (SDPC) that usually have them in stock.

SouthFL.02.SS

Etp..

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

ETP simply has the advantage here. If your going for a cost effective build, get the AFR 225's.

DavidNJ

Let's start with a better question: LS7 style or LS1 style.

Since you race, what are your rules? If they allow an LS7 style head, that would probably be better. The GM engines are all LS7 style.

Otherwise, ET offers a greater selection than the others. However, when you get to the 225 and smaller heads, the differences between the Dart CNC (not out yet), AFR, ET, and Trick Flow (not out yet) will be smaller. All probably have a combustion chamber advantage over the LS1/LS6 heads.

Things to check out: the ET head may be at 11 deg instead of 15. Good for valve clearence and combustion. Bad for drag racing classification. The Trick Flow heads may flow more on the exhaust, an LS1 problem area. Don't know the answers to these questions.

All are reputable manufacturers. ET is also a reputable porter.

JZ'sTA

iTrader: (23)

3000 for the LS7 heads not for the LSx casting heads.
ETP is right in line with AFR on this 215 and 225 heads. The 245's are a bit more but they compete with themselves so the can be a bit more. And its not much like 100 bucks.
BTW the LS7's are out of the question here as they wont work with the 408 bore.

Violatorno1

iTrader: (3)

So would I be correct in thinking that the new Dart head wouldn't even be wise for a decent budget build street monster? How do the Darts compare on a stock C.I. level?

I'm looking at a H/C package for this year on a stock bottom end but would like a decent power making combo that could net mid to low 11's with really no weight reductions. Street trim. Was thinking going with the TSP MS3 cam.

MUSTANGEATER

iTrader: (10)

I'm voting for the Dart's but what do I know? They have a killer short side and seem to perform on a wet bench rather well.

Questions to everyone who says the ETP head is the best on the market, how many of you have first hand tested the ETP heads? Just wondering.

chrismcdaniel

iTrader: (14)

Cat3 ownes a set, and JZ's TA sells them, so i know they do. im sure the others do as well.

i know the guys running ET's are going to say ET'S!!!
and the same for the AFR guys..

but i would really like to see someone give actually hp/flow/price DATA. id like to hear facts not opinions.

oldschoolmuscle

iTrader: (5)

i just bought a set of dart 225 for the time being, but i dont have any numbers yet.

ps chris i love your stance with prostars.

Beast96Z

iTrader: (21)

Even though I own ET heads, I'm not biased against any other vendors heads. Like I said earlier, ET simply has an advantage with the 11 degree valve angle. Personally, I'm not into the "classes" of racing at the strip, I only focus on making my car as fast as it can be with the givin parts. For this instance, I'm going with the 11 degree. As for the LS7 heads, the ET heads seem to have better exaust numbers over the GM castings with a smaller port volume. AFR has heads that are proven to no end. If you are limited to 15 degree heads, they'll probablly be your best bet. I have nothing against Dart, and they could have a excellent product, but since they are new to the game, you'll have to see how they stack up. Espeacialy if they require additional port work to get you on track with the others.

LASTLS1

iTrader: (7)

Not me, I call it like it is. ET seems like a good head. I hope so! I have a set on order. But there aren't alot of people with them on the track and on the dyno. I will post my results. I think AFR is a good head, for now a little more proven than some others on a smaller bore. This summer will show who is who. Hopefully I made the right choice for my application. Whatever you do get your order in ASAP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Because god knows your going to WAIT!!!!!

CAT3

iTrader: (9)

Chris, therein lies a problem. Even if there were before and after dyno's showing one brand to the next, it would only take a day and there would be dyno's to refutte the first one and show that the brand next beats brand one. Search through the Archives, TEA always had great number (flow, dyno and track), but then AS would post about how much better AS heads were and they had slightly better numbers, then the next guy would post up...its business. Bout the only one you really didnt try going that "one up" route is PP, and I respect Gunnar lots, that dude goes out of his way to take care of his customers.
So what next. Make a ******* poll, or keep reading the every opinion is fact post. Dont use my car as an example, you know I need gears before this combo does what Its built for, and then of course you have to ask the same supporting mod question to each person claiming something.
Look at the raw data, its like evidence, know matter how much you want to deny it, its not going to change!

Jimmy P

iTrader: (177)

I am wondering.. Why would it be bad for drag racing classification?

mdhmi

iTrader: (1)

Bad in the sense that the class you run in may exclude heads in that classification.

Mark

DavidNJ

Yes, several classes say you have to have the stock angle, 15deg. The fun of rules. You can check out the rules on the drag racing forums.

Once you make a little change, that maybe moves your car from 11.5 to 11.2, if it violates the rules it puts you with cars running 9.5.

I'm continually surprised rules aren't part of every discussion. Heck, I wouldn't be running 12:1, 2v carb, unmodified bowtie heads, .842 flat tappet lifter, and roller rockers if it wasn't for damn'd rules. An .875 tappet would let me run Nascar grinds. Shaft rockers would allow more radical timing and make adjustment much easier (I HATE girdles!!!). The rest is self explainatory.

On the other had I have a $20k motor not a $40k motor.

Beast96Z is building a very interestng car. However, he really needs a solid lifter cam...but that is another discussion!