Cop shoots motorcyclist in the back...
05-17-2010, 04:32 PM
#41
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Crazy.
What was the rider going to do if he did have a gun facing the WRONG driection... shot at the officer long ways around the back to the right with the officer at his rear left side?! That makes no sense. When you are seated in a motorcycle, it looks like your lifting your elbow when you turn. Try doing it in your chair sitting down, when you turn your body to look behind you the shoulder lifts. He never tried you turn completely around, the officer was never in danger of being shot.
I bet the cop will get some BS charge and be let go. While the rider will never walk again. All over an exhibition of power ticket? Really?
Im all for the officers protecting themselves, but this was not justified.
What was the rider going to do if he did have a gun facing the WRONG driection... shot at the officer long ways around the back to the right with the officer at his rear left side?! That makes no sense. When you are seated in a motorcycle, it looks like your lifting your elbow when you turn. Try doing it in your chair sitting down, when you turn your body to look behind you the shoulder lifts. He never tried you turn completely around, the officer was never in danger of being shot.
I bet the cop will get some BS charge and be let go. While the rider will never walk again. All over an exhibition of power ticket? Really?
Im all for the officers protecting themselves, but this was not justified.
The officer should get some jail time and a fine but if the guy hadn't broken multiple laws in the first place this could have been avoided all together...
05-17-2010, 05:08 PM
#42
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I bet you wouldn't be saying that if the guy on the motorcycle ran over your child half way down the road...bet you would be happy the guy got shot then...makes no sense why the guy looked over his right shoulder when the cop was on the left side of him...did you ever think about what kind of line of sight the officer had??? It was way less than what the dash cam showed...did someone mention that the motorcyclist were both drunk and high??? Do you like drunks driving around on the same roads you do???
The officer should get some jail time and a fine but if the guy hadn't broken multiple laws in the first place this could have been avoided all together...
The officer should get some jail time and a fine but if the guy hadn't broken multiple laws in the first place this could have been avoided all together...
http://calcoastnews.com/2010/05/san-...rug-smuggling/
Note the paid leave part at the bottom. To think a civilian would probably be in jail the entire time while all their **** was being repossessed.
05-17-2010, 05:09 PM
#43
well i think the moral of the stroy here between this link and that link where the dog got shot is to not give the cops a reason to have their weapon out and be nervous. You can see the force they will use so dont give them a reason to do it, not even a little bit.
05-17-2010, 05:21 PM
#44
I bet you wouldn't be saying that if the guy on the motorcycle ran over your child half way down the road...bet you would be happy the guy got shot then...makes no sense why the guy looked over his right shoulder when the cop was on the left side of him...did you ever think about what kind of line of sight the officer had??? It was way less than what the dash cam showed...did someone mention that the motorcyclist were both drunk and high??? Do you like drunks driving around on the same roads you do???
The officer should get some jail time and a fine but if the guy hadn't broken multiple laws in the first place this could have been avoided all together...
The officer should get some jail time and a fine but if the guy hadn't broken multiple laws in the first place this could have been avoided all together...
05-17-2010, 05:36 PM
#46
None of those offenses is serious enough for the cop to get out of the car with his weapon drawn. The biker stopped and was just sitting there, so he was in full compliance after being pulled over. The reason the cop had his gun out is he was angry that the bikers were messing with him, and his emotions got out of control so he over reacted.
05-17-2010, 05:47 PM
#47
None of those offenses is serious enough for the cop to get out of the car with his weapon drawn. The biker stopped and was just sitting there, so he was in full compliance after being pulled over. The reason the cop had his gun out is he was angry that the bikers were messing with him, and his emotions got out of control so he over reacted.
05-17-2010, 10:53 PM
#48
Shooting someone in the back is ALWAYS a bad shooting.
People make mistakes, but I believe the cop should pay dearly for this one, as this poor dude is paralyzed and will never ride a motorcycle again..
I always make sure I have my hands in plain sight at all time if I get pulled over for fear of this **** happening to me.
People make mistakes, but I believe the cop should pay dearly for this one, as this poor dude is paralyzed and will never ride a motorcycle again..
I always make sure I have my hands in plain sight at all time if I get pulled over for fear of this **** happening to me.
05-17-2010, 11:32 PM
#49
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None of those offenses is serious enough for the cop to get out of the car with his weapon drawn. The biker stopped and was just sitting there, so he was in full compliance after being pulled over. The reason the cop had his gun out is he was angry that the bikers were messing with him, and his emotions got out of control so he over reacted.
Of course you might be a little angry that these 2 people, put everybody's life in danger by running from the police.
Let's say the rider had a gun, and the officer did not draw on him. We would be hearing about a dead officer in the news, because he did not draw his weapon, or got complacent in dealing with the public. The only debate is if it was a justified shooting or not. Up until that point, I have no problems with what the officer did or handled. If I was that officer, I would do the same thing, but the shooting I don't know.
05-18-2010, 12:26 AM
#50
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Try to sit back and look at the other side of things...not saying that way you can justify what happened but rather to know why you feel the way you do...everyone is quick to point a finger and have tunnel vision about the event but they don't think of what else could of happened such as a child running out in front of the biker when he was accelerating hard...did it happen no but could it happen yes and that was what the officer was trying prevent from happening...the biker was endangering the safty of the public
05-18-2010, 12:32 AM
#51
Let's say the rider had a gun, and the officer did not draw on him. We would be hearing about a dead officer in the news, because he did not draw his weapon, or got complacent in dealing with the public. The only debate is if it was a justified shooting or not. Up until that point, I have no problems with what the officer did or handled. If I was that officer, I would do the same thing, but the shooting I don't know.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/western-m...-shooting.html
05-18-2010, 12:37 AM
#52
As you seen you were corrected about the laws the biker broke but reread my post and you will see that if I were on the jury he would get a couple of years and a fine...
Try to sit back and look at the other side of things...not saying that way you can justify what happened but rather to know why you feel the way you do...everyone is quick to point a finger and have tunnel vision about the event but they don't think of what else could of happened such as a child running out in front of the biker when he was accelerating hard...did it happen no but could it happen yes and that was what the officer was trying prevent from happening...the biker was endangering the safty of the public
Try to sit back and look at the other side of things...not saying that way you can justify what happened but rather to know why you feel the way you do...everyone is quick to point a finger and have tunnel vision about the event but they don't think of what else could of happened such as a child running out in front of the biker when he was accelerating hard...did it happen no but could it happen yes and that was what the officer was trying prevent from happening...the biker was endangering the safty of the public
Last edited by Soul TKR; 05-18-2010 at 12:43 AM.
05-18-2010, 12:46 AM
#53
Here's a court testimony from a law enforcement expert and it differs quite a bit from some of your interpretations of the video. I see the same thing he does and I'm sure most of will agree.
In response to the case presented by the defense, assistant prosecutors called a rebuttal witness to testify as an expert. W. Ken Katsaris, a law enforcement consultant from Florida, testified about what he saw in the video recording of the incident.
In law enforcement for 48 years, Mr. Katsaris said that he only saw one traffic violation on the video ˆ when the motorcyclists sped up just prior to Officer White activating his lights and sirens. He also testified that he saw no indicators throughout the preceding moments that would "cause concern to an officer."
Mr. Katsaris testified that after Mr. McCloskey stopped his motorcycle, Officer White violated protocol by not turning off his siren so that the motorist could hear. He also testified that the movement Mr. McCloskey made to turn around was not "targeting" the officer ˆ as was testified by defense witnesses ˆ but an obvious "inquiry glance" made to determine what was going on.
In response to the case presented by the defense, assistant prosecutors called a rebuttal witness to testify as an expert. W. Ken Katsaris, a law enforcement consultant from Florida, testified about what he saw in the video recording of the incident.
In law enforcement for 48 years, Mr. Katsaris said that he only saw one traffic violation on the video ˆ when the motorcyclists sped up just prior to Officer White activating his lights and sirens. He also testified that he saw no indicators throughout the preceding moments that would "cause concern to an officer."
Mr. Katsaris testified that after Mr. McCloskey stopped his motorcycle, Officer White violated protocol by not turning off his siren so that the motorist could hear. He also testified that the movement Mr. McCloskey made to turn around was not "targeting" the officer ˆ as was testified by defense witnesses ˆ but an obvious "inquiry glance" made to determine what was going on.
05-18-2010, 12:53 AM
#54
Here's another interpretation from a former police officer and I agree with everything he said.
Being a former police officer, I can’t help but offer my analysis of this traffic stop. Many times, video cameras are the only way to learn from mistakes and are used extensively in law enforcement training. Typically, Officers will review videos like this and discuss what happened, critique it, tear it apart and try to figure out what went wrong and why.
During my time on the streets, I dealt with dozens of potential shooting situations. I came very close to pulling the trigger several times but luckily didn’t have to. Some of those days I could have very easily called it justifiable but thankfully I didn’t have to. Officers are given only a few milliseconds to determine life and death responses. It takes a keen awareness of your surroundings, cover and even concealment options to wear a gun everyday and enforce the law. It’s my opinion that the Officer portrayed in the video is a rookie or has not encountered many felony stops in his career.
I say this for several reasons, most which are easy to say afterwards but I would still hope this Officer at least thought of these options before pulling the trigger. I will simply make a list of things that should be considered when watching this video and when pulling the trigger of a firearm in defense of yourself.
- The shooting victim was riding a motorcycle with absolutely no cover or concealment with which to protect himself.
- The police officer was in a patrol car. He had an engine block in front of him. As he exited, he had the vehicle door in which to help stop bullets.
- If the Officer believed he was conducting a felony stop of 2 out-of-control bikers, why did he stop so close to Michael McClosky? Training and common sense dictates that your patrol car should be quite a bit further back and preferably at an angle.
- Angling your patrol car gives you more cover. Not only does it create a longer barricade, but it allows you to seek cover behind your wheels. Car rims and brake rotors will stop just about any bullet, along with your engine block.
- Felony stops are conducted in a methodical way – regardless of the chaos going on around you, the ability to think clearly and rationally, along with split-second reactions, is the entire reason police officers train.
- Shooting a man in the back because you *think* he has a gun is poor police work in my opinion. Some might call that naive or asking for injury, but in this situation, the police officer already had an overwhelming advantage simply by being in a patrol car had he used it properly. Furthermore, had McClosky actually possessed a firearm and turned to shoot, the effects of police lights, spotlights, headlights and shooting at the police officer over his back – in the dark, not knowing where the Officer is – gave this Ottawa Hills Officer plenty of time to react to an actual gun threat instead of a poorly perceived threat.
- It is my opinion that this officer acted highly inappropriately, prematurely and had a serious case of being trigger-happy. Nothing in this video would have caused me to shoot the individual riding the motorcycle. Time, distance, training, back-up, cover and concealment were all on the police officer’s side and he failed to use every single one of these tactics. And that is entirely his fault. This shooting could have easily been avoided without undo hazard to the safety of the officer.
To be perfectly honest, this John Wayne cop is a poor example of American Police Officers and I hate to say it, but I have little sympathy for him. The Thin Blue Line can only be extended so far before it breaks.
Being a former police officer, I can’t help but offer my analysis of this traffic stop. Many times, video cameras are the only way to learn from mistakes and are used extensively in law enforcement training. Typically, Officers will review videos like this and discuss what happened, critique it, tear it apart and try to figure out what went wrong and why.
During my time on the streets, I dealt with dozens of potential shooting situations. I came very close to pulling the trigger several times but luckily didn’t have to. Some of those days I could have very easily called it justifiable but thankfully I didn’t have to. Officers are given only a few milliseconds to determine life and death responses. It takes a keen awareness of your surroundings, cover and even concealment options to wear a gun everyday and enforce the law. It’s my opinion that the Officer portrayed in the video is a rookie or has not encountered many felony stops in his career.
I say this for several reasons, most which are easy to say afterwards but I would still hope this Officer at least thought of these options before pulling the trigger. I will simply make a list of things that should be considered when watching this video and when pulling the trigger of a firearm in defense of yourself.
- The shooting victim was riding a motorcycle with absolutely no cover or concealment with which to protect himself.
- The police officer was in a patrol car. He had an engine block in front of him. As he exited, he had the vehicle door in which to help stop bullets.
- If the Officer believed he was conducting a felony stop of 2 out-of-control bikers, why did he stop so close to Michael McClosky? Training and common sense dictates that your patrol car should be quite a bit further back and preferably at an angle.
- Angling your patrol car gives you more cover. Not only does it create a longer barricade, but it allows you to seek cover behind your wheels. Car rims and brake rotors will stop just about any bullet, along with your engine block.
- Felony stops are conducted in a methodical way – regardless of the chaos going on around you, the ability to think clearly and rationally, along with split-second reactions, is the entire reason police officers train.
- Shooting a man in the back because you *think* he has a gun is poor police work in my opinion. Some might call that naive or asking for injury, but in this situation, the police officer already had an overwhelming advantage simply by being in a patrol car had he used it properly. Furthermore, had McClosky actually possessed a firearm and turned to shoot, the effects of police lights, spotlights, headlights and shooting at the police officer over his back – in the dark, not knowing where the Officer is – gave this Ottawa Hills Officer plenty of time to react to an actual gun threat instead of a poorly perceived threat.
- It is my opinion that this officer acted highly inappropriately, prematurely and had a serious case of being trigger-happy. Nothing in this video would have caused me to shoot the individual riding the motorcycle. Time, distance, training, back-up, cover and concealment were all on the police officer’s side and he failed to use every single one of these tactics. And that is entirely his fault. This shooting could have easily been avoided without undo hazard to the safety of the officer.
To be perfectly honest, this John Wayne cop is a poor example of American Police Officers and I hate to say it, but I have little sympathy for him. The Thin Blue Line can only be extended so far before it breaks.
05-18-2010, 03:56 AM
#55
Redhot, I applaud you. And I commend you for your comments on a highly emotionally charged incident, that rely on facts, and not emotion. It's very easy to revert to "they should have done ", or "they shouldn't have done that". But at what point do we draw the line - "Yeah, of course that cop felt he was in danger, that driver never made a complete stop at that light!" The police are out there to enforce the law, not play judge, jury, and executioner. The dude just turned around. That's it! Fortunately in this case, I believe the video will portray, in court, the cop as the excessively trigger-happy novice that he is.
05-18-2010, 01:14 PM
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You can speculate all day, but the facts are that the police officer used poor judgment and now a person who was going to be charged w/ a misdemeanor is PARALYZED. Excessive and unreasonable use of deadly force. We need better trained officers, its only a matter of time until an innocent person is killed by a trigger happy/scared officer... oh wait it already happened.
https://ls1tech.com/forums/western-m...-shooting.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/western-m...-shooting.html
The link you posted was a accidental shooting. The officer was serving a High Risk search warrant, on a Murder suspect. The suspects grandmother started to tussle with the officer, and prevent him from searching the home. In the struggle the gun went off. Although it is tragic and sad, I cannot see in any way how that is the officers fault.
05-18-2010, 01:58 PM
#59
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It's not speculation. It does happen, and officers get killed for it. I have no problems whatsoever with this officer and what he did. The only thing that is debatable is the shooting.
The link you posted was a accidental shooting. The officer was serving a High Risk search warrant, on a Murder suspect. The suspects grandmother started to tussle with the officer, and prevent him from searching the home. In the struggle the gun went off. Although it is tragic and sad, I cannot see in any way how that is the officers fault.
The link you posted was a accidental shooting. The officer was serving a High Risk search warrant, on a Murder suspect. The suspects grandmother started to tussle with the officer, and prevent him from searching the home. In the struggle the gun went off. Although it is tragic and sad, I cannot see in any way how that is the officers fault.
05-18-2010, 02:11 PM
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Some very good points have been made. I hope everyone on here remembers to be very cooperative with cops even if u didn't do anything. Don't wanna see any tech members on the news.