Originally Posted by Mike Morris

Even though the 98 Cobra was a tad faster the LS1 Fbodies were stronger in stock trim.

Originally Posted by Mike Morris

That is not what you said. You said factory parts with factory part#s. You can use factory parts to build one n/a. I have many listed many examples DESIGNED by the factory with factory part numbers. If you are talking used in a production car that is easy. 2000 Cobra was n/a. 380 at the crank. 1995 Cobra R was more than the LT1 stuff. You could bring up the LT5 but that was designed out of house and assembled out of hourse. How many times have you said Heater could not built his car using Ford parts? He could have duplicated what he had and his performance doing so. It just would have been expensive. Many of the parts they built and sold were CARBED approved. Reason they were not used in production is that they were not deemed needed. Hell in 1990 they were suppose to come out with a twin turbo 5.0 model. Reason it was shot down was a big wig's wife wrecked a stock car and said big wig felt a twin turbo was crazy to do. The Gt40 package was a result of that and it too was shot down from the bean counters. Gt40 aluminum heads(both versions) never made production but was based off of a production piece.

Lets be honest there was no need to make killer n/a stuff in the Mustang Gt which got slower and slower since 1990 to 1998. It sold like crazy and there was no need to improve it despite it lacking big time in terms of power. But claiming Ford couldn't or was not capable of n/a stuff is silly when they had aftermarket parts showing they could DESIGNED by them. Only reason GM has upper hand in n/a stuff during that period in the Fbodies was the handime down stuff from the Corvette. No Corvette and you can bet no L98,LT1 or LS1. If Ford had a Corvette type car I am sure the Mustang would have benefit as well.

If you are using production parts(which is twisting things around) the LS7 has the edge with small block stuff n/a no question.

Originally Posted by It'llrun

He and Mike worked that out quite clearly. He said it CAN'T be done with Ford parts... He was wrong, as usual. I wasn't involved in what Mike said so ask him.


You may as well have said... 'Besides, I MEANT TO SAY SOMETHING I DIDN'T SAY... That was before I was schooled again and, well... you remember telling everyone that I change it as I go so this is nothing new since the way I actually said it will simply never fit my narrative as long as you better educated more experienced guys are chiming in... '

You say all kinds of things out of turn, so... whatever. Fact is, until the LS1, Ford built OHV engined Mustangs that EASILY ran with their F-body counterparts in general terms.

In 1996, the Cobra was launched and ran mid 13's and the changes after it kept the car in that range until the 2003 Cobra. By the same token, in 1998, the F-body got to the 13's as well and until it left production, typically ran in that area. People like you ACT LIKE that wasn't at all the case, but it was, period.

12yrs after the F-body left production and 5yrs into the new Camaro, things have changed and the LS based engine has been modified greatly, to the point the new Camaro can't keep up with the old... particularly when the old uses a new engine. The Mustang took an entirely different direction and YOU say that's a bad thing. Then again, YOU don't understand engines or what truly makes them tick. Instead, you know the simple things and your answer for everything is "more cubes" while the world has moved on to better technology.

This is why you foolishly got into the debate you did here... You live in the past in terms of technology, but you know nothing about actually building an engine so you ASSUME that Ford can't do something you've never paid attention to anyone doing.

Ford 351W based engines have been powering Mustangs into the MID-6's on the 1/4 mile since 2001... When did you last see any Camaro do that? There's what 1960's tech can really do, if it's done right.

Originally Posted by Mike Morris

I forgot to bring up the 96 Cobra. Cobra could out run an LT1 fbody. It just was harder to do so. It was undergeared and you had to shift it right at the limiter to do it. If you did it and learned how to launch it was a solid 13 second car. I had a few guys like Bob Cosby and Mike Smith show me how to do it. Jerry Green(with Paul S driving) and Barry Shepard all raced n/a 4 valves and in stock trim kicked *** with them too. Even though the 98 Cobra was a tad faster the LS1 Fbodies were stronger in stock trim.

I can remember Bob Cosby with his 99 bolt on Cobra kicking LS1 *** on LS1.com years ago. They hated it too. Bob later got a Trans Am and hated the car and got rid of it. Guy could drive too.

Originally Posted by Mike Morris

Gm did come out with the LT4 in 1996 though. So in OEM production trim the edge is there. But then again Ford had heads in the SVO book that get to that level. Barry Shepard ran them and they were very similiar to the 99 heads that debuted later. You could argue the 5.4 with those heads would outdue a LT4 but its a hybrid and not an production car.

Originally Posted by Mike Morris

That is not what you said. You said factory parts with factory part#s. You can use factory parts to build one n/a. I have many listed many examples DESIGNED by the factory with factory part numbers. If you are talking used in a production car that is easy. 2000 Cobra was n/a. 380 at the crank. 1995 Cobra R was more than the LT1 stuff. You could bring up the LT5 but that was designed out of house and assembled out of hourse. How many times have you said Heater could not built his car using Ford parts? He could have duplicated what he had and his performance doing so. It just would have been expensive. Many of the parts they built and sold were CARBED approved. Reason they were not used in production is that they were not deemed needed. Hell in 1990 they were suppose to come out with a twin turbo 5.0 model. Reason it was shot down was a big wig's wife wrecked a stock car and said big wig felt a twin turbo was crazy to do. The Gt40 package was a result of that and it too was shot down from the bean counters. Gt40 aluminum heads(both versions) never made production but was based off of a production piece.

Originally Posted by It'llrun

For a Fordd, EFI using the Super Victor 351W intake would allow for far more power. By comparison, I'd take a Vic Jr. to the scrap metal yard.

Today, carburetors have NO chance against EFI in terms of making power. I would expect it's not within 100hp and could be an even larger gap(by a bunch). Going to DI, it can get even uglier for carbs. For a street bruiser or weekend warrior, most would be fine either way, but EFI is much simpler to deal with and tuning issues don't really exist.

Originally Posted by R6cowboy

And the 2000 Cobra R was grossly unrated at 385hp. Many chassis dyno tests proved they made closer to 420 crank hp. Typically around the 360whp range on a dynojet. With simple bolt-on's like long tubes, full exhaust, TB, MAF, tuning, they're near LS7 territory in the power department. Those were some pretty badass 5.4L's.

Originally Posted by 92cobranotch

so you think the 460 sbf will pick up with efi. And your right but so is the lsx 454. You have to mod equally to compare. Not restrict the 454 and compare it to efi on the ford. Both will pick up equally if the lsx doesn't pick up more. Lsx454>460sbf any way you look at it. That can't be desputed. You have to compare both engines with equall fuel setups.

Originally Posted by Mike Morris

That is not what you said. You said factory parts with factory part#s. You can use factory parts to build one n/a. I have many listed many examples DESIGNED by the factory with factory part numbers. If you are talking used in a production car that is easy. 2000 Cobra was n/a. 380 at the crank. 1995 Cobra R was more than the LT1 stuff. You could bring up the LT5 but that was designed out of house and assembled out of hourse. How many times have you said Heater could not built his car using Ford parts? He could have duplicated what he had and his performance doing so. It just would have been expensive. Many of the parts they built and sold were CARBED approved. Reason they were not used in production is that they were not deemed needed. Hell in 1990 they were suppose to come out with a twin turbo 5.0 model. Reason it was shot down was a big wig's wife wrecked a stock car and said big wig felt a twin turbo was crazy to do. The Gt40 package was a result of that and it too was shot down from the bean counters. Gt40 aluminum heads(both versions) never made production but was based off of a production piece.

Lets be honest there was no need to make killer n/a stuff in the Mustang Gt which got slower and slower since 1990 to 1998. It sold like crazy and there was no need to improve it despite it lacking big time in terms of power. But claiming Ford couldn't or was not capable of n/a stuff is silly when they had aftermarket parts showing they could DESIGNED by them. Only reason GM has upper hand in n/a stuff during that period in the Fbodies was the handime down stuff from the Corvette. No Corvette and you can bet no L98,LT1 or LS1. If Ford had a Corvette type car I am sure the Mustang would have benefit as well.

If you are using production parts(which is twisting things around) the LS7 has the edge with small block stuff n/a no question.

Originally Posted by HioSSilver

Yep I said factory parts......mass produced easy to obtain factory ****. Then when YOU went to a x headed 351 I said I would use a cnc'd GMPP head. Then you did not want that.......for obvious reasons.....lol I didn't even pull the ls7 card. It's a no contest then. Now you want to bring up a couple of gutted cars that they made less than 500 of combined, one of which you needed a racing license to buy. I did not bring up lt4's because of low production. Between Camaro and corvette production there were WAY more lt4's made than that. Where's your mid 6 Mustang???? All that's right.....you bought a escape. You guys knew what I meant.......you just had to twist it around. When I said FORD couldn't it's because they didn't. Not because someone can't put some combo together with various parts and make it go. Ford finally has some decent **** for the MASSES. Which is what you guys don't pick up on. Solid 13's must mean can squeak into the 13's when the moon and stars align. Show's what kind of taste Bob had. If you can stomach looking at the sn95 cars good for you. But they get worse as you go inside of them.

Originally Posted by HioSSilver

Figured I would throw this out there for ya. 95 cobra r rated at 300hp. You said more than lt stuff.......Not more than LT1 SS's. They were rated at 305hp. With Lt4's coming in at 330 hp.

Originally Posted by HioSSilver

They are no where near ls7 territory. Did you smoke something before that post? They'd be lucky to reach ls6 territory.

Originally Posted by It'llrun

For a Fordd, EFI using the Super Victor 351W intake would allow for far more power. By comparison, I'd take a Vic Jr. to the scrap metal yard.

Today, carburetors have NO chance against EFI in terms of making power. I would expect it's not within 100hp and could be an even larger gap(by a bunch). Going to DI, it can get even uglier for carbs. For a street bruiser or weekend warrior, most would be fine either way, but EFI is much simpler to deal with and tuning issues don't really exist.

Originally Posted by 92cobranotch

so you think the 460 sbf will pick up with efi. And your right but so is the lsx 454. You have to mod equally to compare. Not restrict the 454 and compare it to efi on the ford. Both will pick up equally if the lsx doesn't pick up more. Lsx454>460sbf any way you look at it. That can't be desputed. You have to compare both engines with equall fuel setups.

Originally Posted by 92cobranotch

Why do you full retards always compare a full bolt on or built ford to a stock lsx. There is nothing relevant at all there. A equally modded ls3 will baby seal club the cobra r. Much less a 7

Originally Posted by R6cowboy

92cobranotch, I think you took what It'llrun said out of context. I don't read anywhere in his post comparing the two engines. Only stating that EFI is much better than carburetor and he's right.

Originally Posted by R6cowboy

Why do you think that was a comparison between two engines? And you're calling others retarded. Read my above post to Hio.

Originally Posted by 92cobranotch

I see what your saying I think. You weren't comparing engines you were just saying the turd modded would equal a stock gm motor.

Originally Posted by 92cobranotch

Why do you full retards always compare a full bolt on or built ford to a stock lsx. There is nothing relevant at all there. A equally modded ls3 will baby seal club the cobra r. Much less a 7

Originally Posted by snake95

Ford's new 5.0 baby seal clubs the LS3