Bolt on 5.0, beats 4th gen 427 stroker camaro SS
02-24-2014, 08:08 PM
#103
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A bit more evidence...
Looks like Mike understood pretty well what you were saying...
Here's the thread, for anybody that cares to read Doug's hypocrisy first-hand;
https://ls1tech.com/forums/street-ra...ly-c5z-18.html
Starts with Mike's post #353.
Looks like Mike understood pretty well what you were saying...
Here's the thread, for anybody that cares to read Doug's hypocrisy first-hand;
https://ls1tech.com/forums/street-ra...ly-c5z-18.html
Starts with Mike's post #353.
I'll Tell you this. Your as pathetic as itdontrun. Do you save **** to your computer thinking. ..... I'll get that hiossilver? ? Lmao
Ok. ....back to washing my Mustang now.
02-24-2014, 08:16 PM
#105
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02-24-2014, 09:03 PM
#108
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Your'e on ludes if you think the 305 could compete with the 350 and THAT is the reason people would choose the 350, not because it costs the same as a 305... Because it's BETTER than the 305, just like the SBF 302 was.
305 heads may help the 350, but 350 heads won't help a 305...
I agree.......although I do not think the 302 was superior. I think people saw better results do to the weight of the car and having a strong enough rear to withstand the abuse. The increases in power was more noticeable, not because the engine was better. But then you know me. ..... I'm stuck on using oe type parts. If these furd guys was half the ford guys they think they are the would scoff at using aftermarket heads.
You may not realize it, but the 305 was used in 3rd gen F-bodies... If you've been wondering, they're not exactly heavyweights, even in the world of F-bodies. Anyone could swap the rear for a Ford 9" then, or they could look for a 12 bolt 8.5 and those would hold WAY MORE than the 305 could possibly ever make... 302's carried Mustangs into the 8's... NO CHANCE you ever even heard of a 305 doing the same for any F-body.
NOW you wanna change the conversation again, this time to, 'Well, yeah, but if I can stipulate the rules EXACTLY AROUND what I want, then I win' and that's just childish...
The rest of the world doesn't give a damn about your rules or what you like. That's why you have your doors blown off by literally thousands of cars on American roads today... They don't CARE that you're a half-stepper... They're in it to win it... When you whine that, "but he had a power adder" he's counting the money laughing at you.
I knew a guy with a 305 in the 9's to.
Experimental engines are just that. .....experimental
Nope....... You're way off.
Sure I agree with that. ......I mean what the Hell. .... There were dumbass' s such as yourself buying 2v's and thinking they were great.
02-24-2014, 09:31 PM
#109
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02-24-2014, 09:39 PM
#110
Actually this will give Hio a real heart attack
I could piece together a 302,347,351 etc using Ford parts desgined by Ford with Ford Part numbers that made more power than a LS1 and they were designed years before the LS1 was or debuted. Back in 1991-2000 you can look through a Ford Motorsport/racing book build it and it could even pass emissions. I don't have my books handy for the parts numbers. I will build 3 examples to prove it. Even Nathan can back this up if you don't believe Kevin or Itwillrun
302 stock block and lower end
E cam with FMS 1.72s rockers
GT40 X heads(57 cc)
FMS short tube headers
GT40 intake and FMS 65 MM TB and spacer
FMS 190/110 pump
FMS 24lbers or Cobra ones
Ford racing 77 Prom M
Ford racing 410s
Ford racing aluminum DS
Ford racing LCAs
That is an easy 340HP at the crank with 16 degrees timing(free mod) and will pass smog with stock h pipe and catback. Plus you could use the stock computer and it would run. Use the Ford Extender or their other program that required a lap top and was easy to tune since car will fun fat with the bigger injectors. If you want every part to have CARB numbers you will need the use GT40 cast irons. Want more power to beat LS1s no problem...
Z heads with 1.6 rockers and Z cam. Ford racing Extender and rod bolts so you can rev the thing(though your GT40 will be the limiting factor). Maybe 370-380 at the crank with stock h pipe and catback
Want more-get the Lightning shortblock(which you could get from Ford Motorsport) or use the old A or R block and use the Ford racing 347 kit
Ford racing also sold big cube 351 based shortblocks. At that point the GT40 Intake becomes a restriction. But back then using Ford designed parts you could run LS1 type numbers way before the LS1 came out and pass emissions.
When the 4.6 debuted Ford has heads,cams and even a Ford roots blower for the 2 valve. Shortly later they had heads and cam for the 4 valve. All Ford designed and had carbed numbers. Just think Hio I could have built a 302 based motor with Z heads/Z cam with all Ford parts that matches your LS6s output even with you using non GM parts on your car. It was possible. Was not cheap and much better parts available in the aftermarket though.
Wally Bunker from Ford designed a 4 valve head for the old 302 motor in 1993 but it was deemed not needed. That would have probably got you 400 ish easy with a good intake
The know how and parts were there from Ford. No question
I could piece together a 302,347,351 etc using Ford parts desgined by Ford with Ford Part numbers that made more power than a LS1 and they were designed years before the LS1 was or debuted. Back in 1991-2000 you can look through a Ford Motorsport/racing book build it and it could even pass emissions. I don't have my books handy for the parts numbers. I will build 3 examples to prove it. Even Nathan can back this up if you don't believe Kevin or Itwillrun
302 stock block and lower end
E cam with FMS 1.72s rockers
GT40 X heads(57 cc)
FMS short tube headers
GT40 intake and FMS 65 MM TB and spacer
FMS 190/110 pump
FMS 24lbers or Cobra ones
Ford racing 77 Prom M
Ford racing 410s
Ford racing aluminum DS
Ford racing LCAs
That is an easy 340HP at the crank with 16 degrees timing(free mod) and will pass smog with stock h pipe and catback. Plus you could use the stock computer and it would run. Use the Ford Extender or their other program that required a lap top and was easy to tune since car will fun fat with the bigger injectors. If you want every part to have CARB numbers you will need the use GT40 cast irons. Want more power to beat LS1s no problem...
Z heads with 1.6 rockers and Z cam. Ford racing Extender and rod bolts so you can rev the thing(though your GT40 will be the limiting factor). Maybe 370-380 at the crank with stock h pipe and catback
Want more-get the Lightning shortblock(which you could get from Ford Motorsport) or use the old A or R block and use the Ford racing 347 kit
Ford racing also sold big cube 351 based shortblocks. At that point the GT40 Intake becomes a restriction. But back then using Ford designed parts you could run LS1 type numbers way before the LS1 came out and pass emissions.
When the 4.6 debuted Ford has heads,cams and even a Ford roots blower for the 2 valve. Shortly later they had heads and cam for the 4 valve. All Ford designed and had carbed numbers. Just think Hio I could have built a 302 based motor with Z heads/Z cam with all Ford parts that matches your LS6s output even with you using non GM parts on your car. It was possible. Was not cheap and much better parts available in the aftermarket though.
Wally Bunker from Ford designed a 4 valve head for the old 302 motor in 1993 but it was deemed not needed. That would have probably got you 400 ish easy with a good intake
The know how and parts were there from Ford. No question
Last edited by Mike Morris; 02-24-2014 at 10:05 PM.
02-24-2014, 09:54 PM
#113
Hio did admit in the other thread Ford could not have built it but he could have forgot things. I do to and I make mistakes in posts. Its a large topic to discuss in terms of info.
I bet you anything Hio will get a rise out post 110 and there is nothing he can say to dispute it. It is fact and it can be verified by looking at any Ford racing book.
I bet you anything Hio will get a rise out post 110 and there is nothing he can say to dispute it. It is fact and it can be verified by looking at any Ford racing book.
02-24-2014, 09:55 PM
#114
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Hio did admit in the other thread Ford could not have built it but he could have forgot things. I do to and I make mistakes in posts. Its a large topic to discuss in terms of info.
I bet you anything Hio will get a rise out post 110 and there is nothing he can say to dispute it. It is fact and it can be verified by looking at any Ford racing book.
I bet you anything Hio will get a rise out post 110 and there is nothing he can say to dispute it. It is fact and it can be verified by looking at any Ford racing book.
02-24-2014, 10:12 PM
#116
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Actually this will give Hio a real heart attack
I could piece together a 302,347,351 etc using Ford parts desgined by Ford with Ford Part numbers that made more power than a LS1 and they were designed years before the LS1 was or debuted. Back in 1991-2000 you can look through a Ford Motorsport/racing book build it and it could even pass emissions. I don't have my books handy for the parts numbers. I will build 3 examples to prove it. Even Nathan can back this up if you don't believe Kevin or Itwillrun
302 stock block and lower end
E cam with FMS 1.72s rockers
GT40 X heads(57 cc)
FMS short tube headers
GT40 intake and FMS 65 MM TB and spacer
FMS 190/110 pump
FMS 24lbers or Cobra ones
Ford racing 77 Prom M
Ford racing 410s
Ford racing aluminum DS
Ford racing LCAs
That is an easy 340HP at the crank with 16 degrees timing(free mod) and will pass smog with stock h pipe and catback. Plus you could use the stock computer and it would run. Use the Ford Extender or their other program that required a lap top and was easy to tune since car will fun fat with the bigger injectors. If you want every part to have CARB numbers you will need the use GT40 cast irons. Want more power to beat LS1s no problem...
Z heads with 1.6 rockers and Z cam. Ford racing Extender and rod bolts so you can rev the thing(though your GT40 will be the limiting factor). Maybe 370-380 at the crank with stock h pipe and catback
Want more-get the Lightning shortblock(which you could get from Ford Motorsport) or use the old A or R block and use the Ford racing 347 kit
Ford racing also sold big cube 351 based shortblocks. At that point the GT40 Intake becomes a restriction. But back then using Ford designed parts you could run LS1 type numbers way before the LS1 came out and pass emissions.
When the 4.6 debuted Ford has heads,cams and even a Ford roots blower for the 2 valve. Shortly later they had heads and cam for the 4 valve. All Ford designed and had carbed numbers. Just think Hio I could have built a 302 based motor with Z heads/Z cam with all Ford parts that matches your LS6s output even with you using non GM parts on your car. It was possible. Was not cheap and much better parts available in the aftermarket though.
Wally Bunker from Ford designed a 4 valve head for the old 302 motor in 1993 but it was deemed not needed. That would have probably got you 400 ish easy with a good intake
The know how and parts were there from Ford. No question
I could piece together a 302,347,351 etc using Ford parts desgined by Ford with Ford Part numbers that made more power than a LS1 and they were designed years before the LS1 was or debuted. Back in 1991-2000 you can look through a Ford Motorsport/racing book build it and it could even pass emissions. I don't have my books handy for the parts numbers. I will build 3 examples to prove it. Even Nathan can back this up if you don't believe Kevin or Itwillrun
302 stock block and lower end
E cam with FMS 1.72s rockers
GT40 X heads(57 cc)
FMS short tube headers
GT40 intake and FMS 65 MM TB and spacer
FMS 190/110 pump
FMS 24lbers or Cobra ones
Ford racing 77 Prom M
Ford racing 410s
Ford racing aluminum DS
Ford racing LCAs
That is an easy 340HP at the crank with 16 degrees timing(free mod) and will pass smog with stock h pipe and catback. Plus you could use the stock computer and it would run. Use the Ford Extender or their other program that required a lap top and was easy to tune since car will fun fat with the bigger injectors. If you want every part to have CARB numbers you will need the use GT40 cast irons. Want more power to beat LS1s no problem...
Z heads with 1.6 rockers and Z cam. Ford racing Extender and rod bolts so you can rev the thing(though your GT40 will be the limiting factor). Maybe 370-380 at the crank with stock h pipe and catback
Want more-get the Lightning shortblock(which you could get from Ford Motorsport) or use the old A or R block and use the Ford racing 347 kit
Ford racing also sold big cube 351 based shortblocks. At that point the GT40 Intake becomes a restriction. But back then using Ford designed parts you could run LS1 type numbers way before the LS1 came out and pass emissions.
When the 4.6 debuted Ford has heads,cams and even a Ford roots blower for the 2 valve. Shortly later they had heads and cam for the 4 valve. All Ford designed and had carbed numbers. Just think Hio I could have built a 302 based motor with Z heads/Z cam with all Ford parts that matches your LS6s output even with you using non GM parts on your car. It was possible. Was not cheap and much better parts available in the aftermarket though.
Wally Bunker from Ford designed a 4 valve head for the old 302 motor in 1993 but it was deemed not needed. That would have probably got you 400 ish easy with a good intake
The know how and parts were there from Ford. No question
You just proved my point for me. Thanks bud. FYI....the last GMPP engine we put together made over 450whp on a stock ls6 intake and shitty mac headers.
02-24-2014, 10:17 PM
#117
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Think it through HoHo... Think it through...
Your'e on ludes if you think the 305 could compete with the 350 and THAT is the reason people would choose the 350, not because it costs the same as a 305... Because it's BETTER than the 305, just like the SBF 302 was.
305 heads may help the 350, but 350 heads won't help a 305...
How can you agree that the 302 was superior, then disagree in the same sentence?
You may not realize it, but the 305 was used in 3rd gen F-bodies... If you've been wondering, they're not exactly heavyweights, even in the world of F-bodies. Anyone could swap the rear for a Ford 9" then, or they could look for a 12 bolt 8.5 and those would hold WAY MORE than the 305 could possibly ever make... 302's carried Mustangs into the 8's... NO CHANCE you ever even heard of a 305 doing the same for any F-body.
NOW you wanna change the conversation again, this time to, 'Well, yeah, but if I can stipulate the rules EXACTLY AROUND what I want, then I win' and that's just childish...
The rest of the world doesn't give a damn about your rules or what you like. That's why you have your doors blown off by literally thousands of cars on American roads today... They don't CARE that you're a half-stepper... They're in it to win it... When you whine that, "but he had a power adder" he's counting the money laughing at you.
I was following one of your lines... Seeing if you'd bite. Of course you did... and it's "too," idiot.
Those are how knuckleheads such as yourself can "build" a car... Someone with REAL talent came along and did it first. By the way, just as experimental engines are just that, so are the facts... and that information was factual. Just because you'll never have what it takes to keep up doesn't make the truth false...
Actually, I'm correct... The FR500GT... 550hp. Look it up. I did. There were several variations, starting at 325hp in the S model, then to 415hp in the C model, then the GT.
Your little wannabe masterpiece is a 2 valve...
Your'e on ludes if you think the 305 could compete with the 350 and THAT is the reason people would choose the 350, not because it costs the same as a 305... Because it's BETTER than the 305, just like the SBF 302 was.
305 heads may help the 350, but 350 heads won't help a 305...
How can you agree that the 302 was superior, then disagree in the same sentence?
You may not realize it, but the 305 was used in 3rd gen F-bodies... If you've been wondering, they're not exactly heavyweights, even in the world of F-bodies. Anyone could swap the rear for a Ford 9" then, or they could look for a 12 bolt 8.5 and those would hold WAY MORE than the 305 could possibly ever make... 302's carried Mustangs into the 8's... NO CHANCE you ever even heard of a 305 doing the same for any F-body.
NOW you wanna change the conversation again, this time to, 'Well, yeah, but if I can stipulate the rules EXACTLY AROUND what I want, then I win' and that's just childish...
The rest of the world doesn't give a damn about your rules or what you like. That's why you have your doors blown off by literally thousands of cars on American roads today... They don't CARE that you're a half-stepper... They're in it to win it... When you whine that, "but he had a power adder" he's counting the money laughing at you.
I was following one of your lines... Seeing if you'd bite. Of course you did... and it's "too," idiot.
Those are how knuckleheads such as yourself can "build" a car... Someone with REAL talent came along and did it first. By the way, just as experimental engines are just that, so are the facts... and that information was factual. Just because you'll never have what it takes to keep up doesn't make the truth false...
Actually, I'm correct... The FR500GT... 550hp. Look it up. I did. There were several variations, starting at 325hp in the S model, then to 415hp in the C model, then the GT.
Your little wannabe masterpiece is a 2 valve...
Dumb ****....420hp http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...00gt-road-test
02-24-2014, 10:18 PM
#118
My Point is that Ford can and had the parts to make comparable motor n/a even before the LS1 came out. Your example which is not comparable since those are not ALL Gm parts is using 2002 and up stuff. Mine is using 1995 tech.
A z cammed/z headed lightning shortblock would blast those LS1 bolt on numbers. Your bolt on LS1 example didn't make those numbers with cats or stock exhaust pipes with emmission equipement on it. Plus it needed a tune. The Ford examples I listed DIDNT. Gm sold heads for the LS but they were PORTED by LPE.
Ford's had a emmissions legal 275HP package that was carbed tested meaning it can pass anywhere and it was legal in any state. in 1992.
GT40 heads(used on Cobras)
GT40 intake
1.72 rockers
110 fuel pump
77 mm MAF
FMS shorttube headers
Could be installed at the dealer
Gm had a package too that was rated at 275 HP with SLP parts
Prom
Header
Runners
Cold air kit
But that was on a 350 motor. OUCH. Even the Vette ones with aluminum heads and more compression. DOUBLE ouch.
I could construct a 500RWHP 351 based motor with Ford parts easy. Even more but it would make streetability tough. Please show me where a 450RWHP bolt on LS1 can be had with stock cats and GM parts? You can't.
A z cammed/z headed lightning shortblock would blast those LS1 bolt on numbers. Your bolt on LS1 example didn't make those numbers with cats or stock exhaust pipes with emmission equipement on it. Plus it needed a tune. The Ford examples I listed DIDNT. Gm sold heads for the LS but they were PORTED by LPE.
Ford's had a emmissions legal 275HP package that was carbed tested meaning it can pass anywhere and it was legal in any state. in 1992.
GT40 heads(used on Cobras)
GT40 intake
1.72 rockers
110 fuel pump
77 mm MAF
FMS shorttube headers
Could be installed at the dealer
Gm had a package too that was rated at 275 HP with SLP parts
Prom
Header
Runners
Cold air kit
But that was on a 350 motor. OUCH. Even the Vette ones with aluminum heads and more compression. DOUBLE ouch.
I could construct a 500RWHP 351 based motor with Ford parts easy. Even more but it would make streetability tough. Please show me where a 450RWHP bolt on LS1 can be had with stock cats and GM parts? You can't.
Last edited by Mike Morris; 02-24-2014 at 10:24 PM.
02-24-2014, 10:22 PM
#119
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I made 335whp and 350 wtrq with ported heads, lid and full exhaust. The heads i didnt know was ported at the time id say the motor that mike mentioned with 380 to 400 bhp is in ls1 bolt on territory hio...
02-24-2014, 10:24 PM
#120
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My Point is that Ford can and had the parts to make comparable motor n/a even before the LS1 came out.
A z cammed/z headed lightning shortblock would blast those LS1 bolt on numbers. Your bolt on LS1 example didn't make those numbers with cats or stock exhaust pipes with emmission equipement on it. Plus it needed a tune. The Ford examples I listed DIDNT.
Ford's had a emmissions legal 275HP package that was carbed tested meaning it can pass anywhere and it was legal in any state.
GT40 heads(used on Cobras)
GT40 intake
1.72 rockers
110 fuel pump
77 mm MAF
FMS shorttube headers
Could be installed at the dealer
Gm had a package too that was rated at 275 HP with SLP parts
Prom
Header
Runners
Cold air kit
But that was on a 350 motor. OUCH. Even the Vette ones with aluminum heads and more compression. DOUBLE ouch.
A z cammed/z headed lightning shortblock would blast those LS1 bolt on numbers. Your bolt on LS1 example didn't make those numbers with cats or stock exhaust pipes with emmission equipement on it. Plus it needed a tune. The Ford examples I listed DIDNT.
Ford's had a emmissions legal 275HP package that was carbed tested meaning it can pass anywhere and it was legal in any state.
GT40 heads(used on Cobras)
GT40 intake
1.72 rockers
110 fuel pump
77 mm MAF
FMS shorttube headers
Could be installed at the dealer
Gm had a package too that was rated at 275 HP with SLP parts
Prom
Header
Runners
Cold air kit
But that was on a 350 motor. OUCH. Even the Vette ones with aluminum heads and more compression. DOUBLE ouch.
Don't be talking **** on the 350 tpi stuff. You've already stated your 350 formula went faster than you 5.0. And that it took a head change on it to keep up with the formula.
Your car is burning......you want pics?
edit: Come to think about it my car made 398whp with no tune after the ls6 was put in. My ls1 made 305whp on a mustang dyno the only time it was dyno'd.......on the stock cat back and stock tune.