Suspension & Brakes Springs | Shocks | Handling | Rotors

General Suspension Issues/Questions FAQ

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 04-14-2007, 06:50 PM
  #1  
Copy & Paste Moderator
Thread Starter
 
VIP1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Eastern MA
Posts: 9,714
Likes: 0
Received 187 Likes on 141 Posts

Default General Suspension Issues/Questions FAQ

I've been asked by some to sticky some Suspension related Questions/Issues.
If you'd like to see anything added or changed, let me know:

So far, I have these five topics:

Last edited by VIP1; 01-13-2008 at 10:43 PM.
Old 04-14-2007, 06:50 PM
  #2  
Copy & Paste Moderator
Thread Starter
 
VIP1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Eastern MA
Posts: 9,714
Likes: 0
Received 187 Likes on 141 Posts

Default

Diagnosing a bad tie-rod or ball joint
(knocking noises in front suspension)


Get that wheel up in the air.

Grab the wheel at the 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock position.
Rock it left/right.
Is there any play/noise?
If so, then the outer (or inner) tie rod needs to be replaced.

Grab the wheel at the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock position.
Rock it up/down.
Is there any play/noise?
If so, then the upper and/or lower ball joint(s) need to be replaced.
When you get the spindle off you can inspect the ball joints to see which one has the excess play.
(or take it to Sears and have them replace both with Moog parts)

Rotate the wheel.
Any noise?
If so, take the wheel off and rotate the hub.
Any noise?
Look for anything that can contact the rotor or wheel.
if nothing, take off the caliper and rotor and rotate the hub.
Any noise?
If so then the wheel bearing needs to be replaced.

If there is no noise in any of that, then the nut on the top of the shock might be loose and the shock is moving up/down/left/right in the mount making noise. I left this for last because its the most work to check. You'll have to drop the shock/spring assembly from the tower to inspect the nut. Also make sure nothing is missing like a rubber isolator or washer.

As noted by jmdale1984 below, when tracking down front end noise, also check the sway bar mounts and end links to make sure that they aren't broken.

Last edited by VIP1; 07-07-2007 at 11:06 PM.
Old 04-14-2007, 06:56 PM
  #3  
Copy & Paste Moderator
Thread Starter
 
VIP1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Eastern MA
Posts: 9,714
Likes: 0
Received 187 Likes on 141 Posts

Default

Alignment Specs

This is what I have now (others run pretty close to it too)
Caster: +4.5* (aim for up to +5*)
Camber: -.7* (aim for up to -1*)
Toe: 0
Thats the closest I could get on my car. Every car is different though. If you want to improve straight line tracking, go with some TOE-IN (1/32).

If you want to go further, you can go more negative in the CAMBER and more positive in the CASTER. Some people are running -1.2* to -1.5* CAMBER and +5.0* to +5.5* CASTER. Thats a bit much for the street and harder to achieve with stock/unmodified parts (and will cause tire wear). Maybe those with more aggressive setups will chime in with their specific setups. TOE IN will improve high speed stability (the car will run straiter and wander less). TOE OUT will improve corner entry ease , but at the expense of high speed stability (the car may wander more).

Here are some more threads on alignment:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/636138-alignment-specs.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/544067-best-way-nimbleness-f-body.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/534685-front-end-alignment-questions.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showpost....1&postcount=25
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/460439-there-such-thing-performance-alignment.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/242549-what-your-caster-camber-numbers.html
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/193740-went-tog-et-alignment-today-not-happy.html

Last edited by VIP1; 04-19-2007 at 09:47 AM.
Old 04-15-2007, 02:34 AM
  #4  
TECH Senior Member
iTrader: (23)
 
brad8266's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Watertown, NY
Posts: 8,797
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

I diagnose wheel bearing hubs by grabbing at 12 and 6 oclock and wiggling. I just went through that on my other car.

The inner tie rod can also be diagnosed at wiggling at 3 and 9 oclock.
Old 04-27-2007, 08:24 PM
  #5  
Copy & Paste Moderator
Thread Starter
 
VIP1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Eastern MA
Posts: 9,714
Likes: 0
Received 187 Likes on 141 Posts

Default

What rotors/pads/etc

Slotted & Cross Drilled rotors are not an upgrade.
Manufactures make them because people buy them. Drilled and slotted rotors with today's pad compounds are for looks and the manufacturers admit it.

Check out the FAQ section on their sites.

Wilwood:
http://www.wilwood.com/Centers/Infor..._answer/07.asp
Originally Posted by Wilwood
Why are some rotors drilled or slotted?
Rotors are drilled to reduce rotating weight, an issue near and dear to racers searching for ways to minimize unsprung weight. Drilling diminishes a rotor's durability and cooling capacity.
Slots or grooves in rotor faces are partly a carryover from the days of asbestos pads. Asbestos and other organic pads were prone to "glazing" and the slots tended to help "scrape or de-glaze" them. Drilling and slotting rotors has become popular in street applications for their pure aesthetic value. Wilwood has a large selection of drilled and slotted rotors for a wide range of applications.
Baer
http://www.baer.com/technical/faq/index.php
Originally Posted by Baer
What are the benefits to cross-drilling, slotting, and zinc-washing my rotors?
In years past, cross-drilling and/or slotting the rotor for racing purposes was beneficial by providing a way to expel the gasses created when the bonding agents employed to manufacture the pads began to break down at extreme temperatures. This condition is often referred to as "green pad fade" or "outgassing". When it does occur, the driver still has a good firm brake pedal, but simply little or no friction. Since this normally happens only at temperatures witnessed in racing, this can be very exciting! However, with today´s race pad technology, “outgassing” is no longer much of a concern. When shopping for races pads, or even ultra high performance road pads, look for the phrases, "dynamic surface treatment", "race ready", and/or, "pre-burnished". When these or similar statements are made by the pad manufacturer, the pad in question will likely have little or no problem with “outgassing”. Ironically more pedestrian pads used on most streetcars will still exhibit “outgassing”, but only when used at temperatures normally only encountered on the racetrack. Although cross-drilling and/or slotting will provide a welcome path to expend any gasses when and if they develop, it is primarily a visual enhancement behind today’s often wide-open wheel designs. Cross-drilling offers the greatest gas relief pathway, but creates potential "stress risers" from which cracks can occur. Baer´s rotors are cast with cross-drilling in mind, from the material specified, to curved vanes, behind which the holes are placed to minimize potential crack migration. Slotted surfaces are what Baer recommends for track only use. Slotted only rotors are offered as an option for any of Baer’s offerings.
Here is one of many threads on the subject:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/showthrea...ighlight=admit
Sub link from that thread:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/565786-best-sponsor-prices-set-cross-drilled-slotted-rotors.html
(also contains links to manufacturer sites)
(scroll down to my post)

Here is the infamous thread:
https://ls1tech.com/forums/suspension-brakes/262940-replacing-rotors-what-get.html
(Don't do what absolut said, he was joking.)


Back to the actual topic at hand...


Here are a few points on upgrading f-body brakes:

If you are just looking for better-than-stock and stay on a budget:
If you want an improvement in braking for a little more money:
(in addition to above)
  • C5 rotors and the requisite brackets and other items to make them fit
  • More aggressive pads
  • Wider/stickier tires (yes tires, they are your physical contact to the ground)

If you want to spend more money:


If you want more info check out the Brake FAQ and do some searching.



Check out StopTech's White Papers:
http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/te...e_papers.shtml
(Also listed in the Brake FAQ)




I forgot to mention shocks above. If your shocks are blown, replace them as well. That will give you better control over the vehicle and can also shorten stopping distances due to better control of the wheels.

Last edited by VIP1; 07-07-2007 at 11:00 PM.
Old 04-29-2007, 10:50 PM
  #6  
Copy & Paste Moderator
Thread Starter
 
VIP1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Eastern MA
Posts: 9,714
Likes: 0
Received 187 Likes on 141 Posts

Default

Why Adjustable LCA & PHB

* Adjustable LCAs allow you to adjust the rear axle forward/aft/diagonally.
* Adjustable PHB allows you to adjust the rear axle left/right.
* With both you can adjust the rear axle in all horizontal directions (left/right/forward/aft/diagonally) to center it under the car.
* Ajustable PHB isnt necessary for stock right hide, but is necessary when the ride height is changed (ex: lowering the car).

That being said....
I have stock right height, but I do have adjustable Spohn rod/poly PHB and LCAs. My rear was a bit off with the stock parts and is all straight now with the adjustables. I had it aligned by the tech during a 4-wheel alignment. It took some convincing to get him to do it. He insisted that there wasn't anything adjustable back there. I had to walk him over and show him.

When I say centered, I mean with the running gear (during an alignment) and not just visually.
Old 07-06-2007, 12:23 AM
  #7  
TECH Resident
iTrader: (6)
 
jmdale1984's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Palestine (East Texas), Texas
Posts: 777
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts

Default

Originally Posted by VIP1
Diagnosing a bad tie-rod or ball joint
(knocking noises in front suspension)


Get that wheel up in the air.

Grab the wheel at the 9 o'clock and 3 o'clock position.
Rock it left/right.
Is there any play/noise?
If so, then the outer tie rod needs to be replaced.

Grab the wheel at the 12 o'clock and 6 o'clock position.
Rock it up/down.
Is there any play/noise?
If so, then the upper and/or lower ball joint(s) need to be replaced.
When you get the spindle off you can inspect the ball joints to see which one has the excess play.
(or take it to Sears and have them replace both with Moog parts)

Rotate the wheel.
Any noise?
If so, take the wheel off and rotate the hub.
Any noise?
Look for anything that can contact the rotor or wheel.
if nothing, take off the caliper and rotor and rotate the hub.
Any noise?
If so then the wheel bearing needs to be replaced.

If there is no noise in any of that, then the nut on the top of the shock might be loose and the shock is moving up/down/left/right in the mount making noise. I left this for last because its the most work to check. You'll have to drop the shock/spring assembly from the tower to inspect the nut. Also make sure nothing is missing like a rubber isolator or washer.

Good write up, but I found my clunking noise to be a broken sway bar mount, after checking everything except the shock.
Old 04-27-2013, 10:47 PM
  #8  
Staging Lane
 
GhosT5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Default

If there's play when rocking the wheel at 12 and 6, it could be either ball joint(s) or the bearing. An easy way to check is to look at the ball joints to see if they wobble when moving the wheel. If they are tight, that means the wheel bearing has gone bad.

If it's wiggling at 9 and 3, it's most likely the tie rod(s), you can check if it's the inner or the outer one by grabbing them with your hand and feeling which one transfers the most wobbling when you move the wheel.

It's important to inspect the rest of the bushings, like the sway bar, control arms, stabilizers, etc. Best to do this by moving them with a pry bar (though could be harder to do in the driveway), and see if there's any wobbling. They should be able to move but have a tight feel. See if any of the bushings are cracked, if so, replace them.



Quick Reply: General Suspension Issues/Questions FAQ



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:31 PM.