When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Apologies for the gap in time of the posts....
Below are some more pics of clearance verification and Sonnax 77964-08K o-ring end plugs
Final Clearances (wet):
Reverse Drum: .062
Forward Clutch: .042 (measured under snap ring)
3-4 Clutch: .042 (measured under top plate - Sonnax Smart Input Drum)
Sonnax O-ring end plug install:
New snap ring inside Sonnax Smart Tech Input Drum on 7-CS spring fortified forward/overrun spring cage:
Clearance between snap ring and forward clutch pressure plate: .042
Clearance between top plate of Sonnax Smart Tech Input Drum and top friction: .042
New snap ring installed in reverse input drum.
Clearance between snap ring and top plate of new reverse input drum: .062
OK so after doing more research, these are my latest separator plate hole sizes: 1-2 - .086
2-3 - .135
3-4 - .140
BR - .101
FwD Clutch - .086
Lo/Rev - .093
Rev - .104
3-2 - .120
Not drilling anything on the plate other than the modified numbers above.
I've decided to use the Corvette servo in combination with the Sonnax 4th gear servo with Separator Plate GM# 24244053.
Also keeping the stock torque converter
Recap:
3-2 Control and Downshift are disabled with spacer in valve body
4th Accumulator is drilled, 5/16" tapped and plugged. No pin, piston or spring.
Pump has Sonnax #77917-07 Oversized pressure regulator valve and .500 boost valve.
1-2 Accumulator #937 and Transgo Blue spring - Piston - Orange spring from SK700-JR kit and White spring in Sonnax 77777M-K accumulator valve train kit.
Sonnax 77754-41 Heavy Duty 2-3 Shift Valve #6 check***deleted
Valve Body drilled for Sonnax 2-3 (minor fretting)
Superior K0136
Extra cushion spring for Corvette servo. Trying to eliminate the downshift "clunk". Should I still cut the notches in the steel plate?
Transgo 1-2 Accumulator Mod from SK700-JR kit w/ #937 housing
The 3rd-Exhaust orifice (the one you labeled 3-2) generally should match the 3rd-Feed orifice (the one you labeled 2-3)...
You can make them both 0.135" if you like.
Do not enlarge the orifice for the Reverse-Input Clutch to 0.104".
Just keep it the size that it already is.
I am not fan of the Sonnax 77777M-K Accumulator Valve-Train Set for a Performance build...
However you said you are using a Stock stall-speed Torque-Converter?
If that is the case... you may actually benefit from the Sonnax 77777M-K Accumulator Valve-Train Set...
Some experimentation may be required to find a happy medium for the 1-2 shift.
I would also probably NOT enlarge the 2nd-Feed orifice to 0.086" and keep it at 0.074" - 0.078".
What is the Letter on the original Accumulator Valve-Train?
You do not need to install a Check-Ball in the case anymore...
And you can remove the Check-Ball that is in a Capsule for the Low-Reverse Clutch, towards the bottom of the case passages.
I normally do not enlarge the 4th-Feed orifice to 0.140" with the Sonnax 4th Servo Piston and a stock stall-speed TC...
However, without any gear multiplication occurring on the 3rd - 4th shift... a harsh up-shift is highly unlikely to ever occur.
For the Servo; modifying the steel cover by adding 4 Holes, is to help prevent a "Hydra-Lock" and allow the cushion Springs do their job.
Are you really keeping a stock stall-speed Torque-Converter???
I am sorry, but I try to talk everyone out of that decision.
You are leaving a good amount of performance increase on the table.
I would at least try FTI Performance and have them go over the benefits of changing the TC.
The 3rd-Exhaust orifice (the one you labeled 3-2) generally should match the 3rd-Feed orifice (the one you labeled 2-3)...
You can make them both 0.135" if you like.
Do not enlarge the orifice for the Reverse-Input Clutch to 0.104".
Just keep it the size that it already is.
I am not fan of the Sonnax 77777M-K Accumulator Valve-Train Set for a Performance build...
However you said you are using a Stock stall-speed Torque-Converter?
If that is the case... you may actually benefit from the Sonnax 77777M-K Accumulator Valve-Train Set...
Some experimentation may be required to find a happy medium for the 1-2 shift.
I would also probably NOT enlarge the 2nd-Feed orifice to 0.086" and keep it at 0.074" - 0.078".
What is the Letter on the original Accumulator Valve-Train?
You do not need to install a Check-Ball in the case anymore...
And you can remove the Check-Ball that is in a Capsule for the Low-Reverse Clutch, towards the bottom of the case passages.
I normally do not enlarge the 4th-Feed orifice to 0.140" with the Sonnax 4th Servo Piston and a stock stall-speed TC...
However, without any gear multiplication occurring on the 3rd - 4th shift... a harsh up-shift is highly unlikely to ever occur.
For the Servo; modifying the steel cover by adding 4 Holes, is to help prevent a "Hydra-Lock" and allow the cushion Springs do their job.
Are you really keeping a stock stall-speed Torque-Converter???
I am sorry, but I try to talk everyone out of that decision.
You are leaving a good amount of performance increase on the table.
I would at least try FTI Performance and have them go over the benefits of changing the TC.
Thanks vorteciroc. I appreciate the guidance. Will do. Please see responses below.
"The 3rd-Exhaust orifice (the one you labeled 3-2) generally should match the 3rd-Feed orifice (the one you labeled 2-3)...
You can make them both 0.135" if you like." Will match 3-2 to the 2-3
"Do not enlarge the orifice for the Reverse-Input Clutch to 0.104".
Just keep it the size that it already is." Will leave it alone
"I am not fan of the Sonnax 77777M-K Accumulator Valve-Train Set for a Performance build...
However you said you are using a Stock stall-speed Torque-Converter?
If that is the case... you may actually benefit from the Sonnax 77777M-K Accumulator Valve-Train Set...
What is the Letter on the original Accumulator Valve-Train?" I chose to get the valve body remanufactured and the Sonnax 77777M-K was installed. I then modified it per suggestions here on the forum. I will be pulling the old 4L60E out of the Suburban tomorrow. I can investigate what accumulator is in that valve body and report. Truck was doing great until the band began to wear.
"Some experimentation may be required to find a happy medium for the 1-2 shift.
I would also probably NOT enlarge the 2nd-Feed orifice to 0.086" and keep it at 0.074" - 0.078". Hoping to nail this on the first try, but that's how you learn. I will only increase it to 0.074.
"You do not need to install a Check-Ball in the case anymore..." Yes, the 4th accumulator check **** is removed. I neglected to state that. My apologies.
"And you can remove the Check-Ball that is in a Capsule for the Low-Reverse Clutch, towards the bottom of the case passages." Will remove this check****
"I normally do not enlarge the 4th-Feed orifice to 0.140" with the Sonnax 4th Servo Piston and a stock stall-speed TC...
However, without any gear multiplication occurring on the 3rd - 4th shift... a harsh up-shift is highly unlikely to ever occur." Yes...this .140 hole size was something Dana stated on another thread. If using the Sonnax 4th servo and you were planning on doing a lot of full throttle 3-4 shifts, this would help band life. Also MaroonMonster1 had indicated it was difficult to make the 4L60E shift too hard in the 3-4 shift even with the 4th accumulator blocked as I have. So I figured it would be ok for me too. I hadn't thought about the lack of gear multiplication so that seems to be another reason it could work. Fingers crossed.
"For the Servo; modifying the steel cover by adding 4 Holes, is to help prevent a "Hydra-Lock" and allow the cushion Springs do their job." Will add the 4 notches per Transgo instructions. Was hoping the extra spring would eliminate that need. Will keep the spring in addition to the notches.
"Are you really keeping a stock stall-speed Torque-Converter???
I am sorry, but I try to talk everyone out of that decision.
You are leaving a good amount of performance increase on the table.
I would at least try FTI Performance and have them go over the benefits of changing the TC." I totally agree with you. My original plan was for a 9.5" Yank. But I figured this is my first automatic transmission build ever. So there's a chance, even though I've been very thorough and careful, that this build could grenade. My logic is if that occurs, I don't hose a new, expensive converter, cooler and new lines. The current transmission in my Suburban runs decent but has a worn band and possible 3-4 clutch pack. I still drive it. Fluid is still decent and not brown and burned. Nothing detrimental that a flush of new fluid through the lines won't fix. Might not get it all out of the converter, but I'll run it for awhile and change the fluid again. If this build is successful and it proves reliable, I'll pull it and add the larger cooler, smaller converter and new lines.
Also I will probably upgrade to a Sonnax 2nd servo as well. I'll be reaching out to Professor vorteciroc as well as other professors here when that time comes to make sure I'm making proper adjustments. In the mean time, I'll be learning and documenting my victories and failures for this build once I get it installed. I'm excited to try.
Just want to say another huge THANK YOU for all the guidance and knowledge from you and several others who've been there to answer questions for me!!
Don't bother with a sonnax 2nd servo
just a corvette servo, good band, and good drum will handle more power than you'll ever throw at a 60e
your feed sizes are going to be a bit aggressive with stock converter. I'd go with a performance unit.
Vortec and I love to talk accumulators haha
if you are blocking 4th and using the transgo style setup for the accumulator...the valve lineup in the accumulator bore of the VB will not really matter much at all.
it will only be affecting the 1-2 shift feel and you can get the desired feel easily with spring and orifice sizing. No need to bother with the accumulator valve really.
You are doing fine. And respect for going out and finding the information as its all out there. Then taking the time to understand why.
What I wouldnt do, is reinstall the converter thats currently in the vehicle with your new trans with the logic of "ill run it and change fluid" in hopes to catch whatever is in the converter. Your putting a lot of time, money, and effort into this unit just to run possible contamination through it. Be confident in your build which from what I have been seeing you have no reason not to be as long as you pay attention to your details on the install and fluid fill. With the converter, pay once, cry once.
Don't bother with a sonnax 2nd servo
just a corvette servo, good band, and good drum will handle more power than you'll ever throw at a 60e
your feed sizes are going to be a bit aggressive with stock converter. I'd go with a performance unit.
Vortec and I love to talk accumulators haha
if you are blocking 4th and using the transgo style setup for the accumulator...the valve lineup in the accumulator bore of the VB will not really matter much at all.
it will only be affecting the 1-2 shift feel and you can get the desired feel easily with spring and orifice sizing. No need to bother with the accumulator valve really.
Maroon...I'll let you and vortec debate it out. I'm sure we will all learn something.
I hope these feed holes will work "moderately" well with the current converter. Gonna go with what I have as I'll explain below in reply to 2BFAST
Also....I've decided not use the Sonnax Smart Tech Input drum this time. I want to get the first build under my belt before I go Hog Sonnax Wild on the next build.
So I'm leaving the Sonnax billet input/output/Smart Drum out and on the shelf. I will use them when I build the next 4L60E with the performance converter and cooler.
So I'm going with this 3/4 stack suggestion from Clinebarger. I have these parts ready to install.
I'll be using the stock input drum from the one I pull from the 'Burb tomorrow. Hopefully it will be in good shape.
7 Borg Warner .080" High Energy Frictions.
6 .077" Steels.
3-4 Apply Plate GM# 8685044.
3-4 Backing Plate GM# 24212460.
0.093 snap ring
Looking for final clearance of 0.035
New Reverse Drum
BW HE band - Dana's favorite
This you know already:
Vette 2nd servo (GM# 8642093 & 8642115)
Separator Plate GM# 24244053. Matches the 093 servo.
Originally Posted by 2BFAST
You are doing fine. And respect for going out and finding the information as its all out there. Then taking the time to understand why.
What I wouldnt do, is reinstall the converter thats currently in the vehicle with your new trans with the logic of "ill run it and change fluid" in hopes to catch whatever is in the converter. Your putting a lot of time, money, and effort into this unit just to run possible contamination through it. Be confident in your build which from what I have been seeing you have no reason not to be as long as you pay attention to your details on the install and fluid fill. With the converter, pay once, cry once.
2BFAST,
Your advice is sound sir...but I'm not gonna take it....and it may bite me in the butt in the end. I will report if this is indeed what happens.
But.....the transmission and converter only have about 45k on them. I found out the converter has a slightly higher stall, but nothing extravagant.
I've been trying to plan for time to do this install and the Memorial Day weekend seems to be the best time, so I'm kind of on a time crunch as well.
I will inspect the torque converter for any galling or wear and if I find anything suspicious on the converter or in the pan, then of course all bets are off and I'll suck it up and get a new one.
One other thing of note...I don't plan to have this transmission in the Suburban very long. I want to get it running and smooth out any bugs and drive it long enough to deem it reliable. Then, I will be pulling it and refreshing it for a friend's LS swap in a '70 El Camino. I hate to change so much form the original plan in this thread, but the more I know, the more I want to know...and this path just makes more sense to me now. I appreciate all of you hanging with me!!!!!
Maroon...I'll let you and vortec debate it out. I'm sure we will all learn something.
I hope these feed holes will work "moderately" well with the current converter. Gonna go with what I have as I'll explain below in reply to 2BFAST
Also....I've decided not use the Sonnax Smart Tech Input drum this time. I want to get the first build under my belt before I go Hog Sonnax Wild on the next build.
So I'm leaving the Sonnax billet input/output/Smart Drum out and on the shelf. I will use them when I build the next 4L60E with the performance converter and cooler.
So I'm going with this 3/4 stack suggestion from Clinebarger. I have these parts ready to install.
I'll be using the stock input drum from the one I pull from the 'Burb tomorrow. Hopefully it will be in good shape.
7 Borg Warner .080" High Energy Frictions.
6 .077" Steels.
3-4 Apply Plate GM# 8685044.
3-4 Backing Plate GM# 24212460.
0.093 snap ring
Looking for final clearance of 0.035
New Reverse Drum
BW HE band - Dana's favorite
This you know already:
Vette 2nd servo (GM# 8642093 & 8642115)
Separator Plate GM# 24244053. Matches the 093 servo.
2BFAST,
Your advice is sound sir...but I'm not gonna take it....and it may bite me in the butt in the end. I will report if this is indeed what happens.
But.....the transmission and converter only have about 45k on them. I found out the converter has a slightly higher stall, but nothing extravagant.
I've been trying to plan for time to do this install and the Memorial Day weekend seems to be the best time, so I'm kind of on a time crunch as well.
I will inspect the torque converter for any galling or wear and if I find anything suspicious on the converter or in the pan, then of course all bets are off and I'll suck it up and get a new one.
One other thing of note...I don't plan to have this transmission in the Suburban very long. I want to get it running and smooth out any bugs and drive it long enough to deem it reliable. Then, I will be pulling it and refreshing it for a friend's LS swap in a '70 El Camino. I hate to change so much form the original plan in this thread, but the more I know, the more I want to know...and this path just makes more sense to me now. I appreciate all of you hanging with me!!!!!
You must enjoy R & Ring transmissions more than I do lol j/k
Hey, its your truck and your time. I cant tell you other wise other the a suggestion.
Regarding the factory input drum, make sure you pressure test it to make sure you dont have leaks at the encapsulated check ball as well as the press fit at the input shaft to drum splines. If you check Sonnax's website they have clear instructions on how, what, and why to do this. Also make sure you to look at the splines the reverse clutches mesh too as well as the pump stator bushing surfaces on the input shaft. Also install the load release springs for your 3/4 pack. The springs from Sonnax work well in cleaned up factory cages.
As I said, I think you will do just fine as far as the build goes.
You must enjoy R & Ring transmissions more than I do lol j/k
Hey, its your truck and your time. I cant tell you other wise other the a suggestion.
Regarding the factory input drum, make sure you pressure test it to make sure you dont have leaks at the encapsulated check ball as well as the press fit at the input shaft to drum splines. If you check Sonnax's website they have clear instructions on how, what, and why to do this. Also make sure you to look at the splines the reverse clutches mesh too as well as the pump stator bushing surfaces on the input shaft. Also install the load release springs for your 3/4 pack. The springs from Sonnax work well in cleaned up factory cages.
As I said, I think you will do just fine as far as the build goes.
2BFAST,
LoL....nope...don't enjoy it much, but have completed the task on many cars and trucks...but this is the first R&R of the 4L60E on the 'Burb.
I will study the Sonnax guide and will complete the check list you speak of above.
I will also stack the pump and input drums and air test them all through the pump.
Brando1118Burb you will be fine reusing your old torque converter. I have done it many times with converters that I knew the vehicle that they came out of. I have even use one that the trans had a lot of broken hard parts. I did a few quick fluid changes and all is well. I know this is not the correct way of doing things and it may cut down on the life of the trans somewhat, but I am willing to roll the dice for my own use. If it breaks I'll fix it. I find that these transmissions are not as sensitive as people make them out to be. Just my opinion, for whatever it is worth.
There are a couple reasons everyone is against reusing the tq converter, but I am on board with bbond...for personal use, for the sake of a budget, & if you know the history of the vehicle and transmission that tq converter is coming out of...you can get away with it without trouble
A. you send any trash in the converter...straight into the cooler and transmission. no bueno
B. if you were having any type of lockup issue...or if the trans was factory and there is a fair bit of miles on the converter...there is a good chance the lockup clutch inside is worn a good amount
C. and this is the one I find most important/relevant to your build. The stock tq converter will really amplify firm/aggressive shifts. it does nothing to "cushion" the wear and tear on parts when you're really hammering a shift.
If you'll be treating this thing pretty mildly...and you know A & B aren't big risks...then reusing will more than likely be fine for a PERSONAL application.
I'd never recommend this practice if you're messing with a customer's vehicle
Thank you all for sharing your experience with used converters.
I wanted to share some pics with you at what I've found in the 4L60E I just pulled from the 'Burb.
This is my hypothesis of what's in the pictures below. Would love to know what you all think.
the 3-4 piston failed...it was loosey goosey on the forward piston housing. That was from heat.
The heat was from my dumbass driving the truck hard while misfires were present.
Now with CeL lit up and no converter lockup....it was probably an inferno in there I'm sure.
So heat killed the 3-4 piston and no pressure then fried the 3-4 clutch and also caused this:
Can I use this input drum, or do I need to get another one? I was thinking about filing down some of the high edges. There are a few incidents of high edges in the clutch/steel pathways present throughout the drum.
vorteciroc,
Yes, this was over two years ago when I was learning to tune. Truck purrrs now with no CeL's
Definitely no more misfiring being read from the PCM. I blocked that out as the Hot Cam seems to confuse the 02 sensors.
Went a step further and now idle in open loop and read off the tables. Much smoother.
Here is a pic of the 3-4 clutch pack. Looks gnarly.
Just a quick note to let you all know the transmission is installed in the 'Burb and is running great. I can't believe how much smoother the truck drives. I think the previous transmission was ready to grenade at the next full throttle run.
No 2-3 or 3-2 shift delay or flair and 4th gear is pleasant....nothing harsh. No hunting for gears...it just works. I realize all bets are off once I begin to drive more aggressively, but for now I plan on driving her easy for a few hundred miles to make sure there's nothing I've overlooked that could eventually bring the transmission down. Torque management is at %50. Funny, I'm not even aware of the break-in procedure (if any) for these transmissions.
Thank you all for the guidance and patience as I built my first 4L60E.
Just a quick note to let you all know the transmission is installed in the 'Burb and is running great. I can't believe how much smoother the truck drives. I think the previous transmission was ready to grenade at the next full throttle run.
No 2-3 or 3-2 shift delay or flair and 4th gear is pleasant....nothing harsh. No hunting for gears...it just works. I realize all bets are off once I begin to drive more aggressively, but for now I plan on driving her easy for a few hundred miles to make sure there's nothing I've overlooked that could eventually bring the transmission down. Torque management is at %50. Funny, I'm not even aware of the break-in procedure (if any) for these transmissions.
Thank you all for the guidance and patience as I built my first 4L60E.
Before i copy paste all you did to my Trailblazer build, do you have any advices or things you want to add to those, who'll read this?
by far the most usefull thread
Just a quick note to let you all know the transmission is installed in the 'Burb and is running great. I can't believe how much smoother the truck drives. I think the previous transmission was ready to grenade at the next full throttle run.
No 2-3 or 3-2 shift delay or flair and 4th gear is pleasant....nothing harsh. No hunting for gears...it just works. I realize all bets are off once I begin to drive more aggressively, but for now I plan on driving her easy for a few hundred miles to make sure there's nothing I've overlooked that could eventually bring the transmission down. Torque management is at %50. Funny, I'm not even aware of the break-in procedure (if any) for these transmissions.
Thank you all for the guidance and patience as I built my first 4L60E.
05-20-2021, 11:43 AM
haha
